Shooting low / Pattern Plates

[paul99]

I just spent a very fustrating late afternoon and evening on the pigeon with the o/u Baikal - the first real time I've used it on live quarry and did pretty poorly even by my standards - 20 odd shots for 4 lightly shot birds and 2 bonus jays with another 4 or 5 pricked birds that kept flying all of which really ought have been hit very hard at the distances I was shooting. I'm pretty certain that my missing / pricking of the birds was not down to not leading enough but a case of me shooting consistently low (going by where I noticed the pellets being situated on each bird as I picked them up and the reaction of those birds I missed). To my mind shooting low would explain alot in terms of my dissapointing performance with the gun so far and I think explains why I faired far far better with going away targets whilst failing to hit anything incoming and only lightly clipping crossers in either direction (thinking back the pattern of incoming vs outgoing is evident from the last two outings on clays too ) which is about as far opposite, as is possible, to what I can expect, when using the usual SBS.

 

Having done a quick search of the forum it seems like there have been people in the past who have found that the comb height on Baikals can be too low - which would cause the problem I think I may be having... Anyway whatever the case clearly I'm not shooting right with so many birds at normal shooting distances with what are very decent No.6 game loads (normally overkill for pigeons - but wanted to totally rule cartridge performace out) which leads me onto checking just where I'm shooting using a pattern plate - something I've never had cause to do in the past. Upon doing a little research there seems to be a range of different views as to the best distance you should be from the plate - does it really make alot a difference so long as the spread isn't too great to determine a fairly clear point of impact? or could choosing the wrong distance severely influence the results? Hopefully I'll get a bit of time after work tommorrow to put my theory to the test - now I've got the idea in my head I got to put it to the test even if it shows me to be completely worng about what I think is happening....

Paul

Edited July 29, 2010 by paul99

[wymberley]

Hi,

As you're only going to use the plate for the reason that you detailed, the correct answer can only come from you and which is the distance that you take the majority of your shots. Remember that it is essential that you do not deliberately aim at the centre of the plate but mount and shoot as if, say, you were in the pigeon hide. Once you've done it, having made a note of the distance and the result, there are a couple of people here that are able to explain what it all means. I've only answered the question you asked.

Good luck.

[sitsinhedges]

Hi,

As you're only going to use the plate for the reason that you detailed, the correct answer can only come from you and which is the distance that you take the majority of your shots. Remember that it is essential that you do not deliberately aim at the centre of the plate but mount and shoot as if, say, you were in the pigeon hide. Once you've done it, having made a note of the distance and the result, there are a couple of people here that are able to explain what it all means. I've only answered the question you asked.

Good luck.

 

 

Don't really understand how that works on a static target though

 

I have patterned most of the guns I have bought but I only do it taking a definite point of aim so I know if the shot is on the bead or above or below. My Berettas tend to put the shot cloud centred on the top of the bead so I shoot at the targets feet, my Hushpower o/u tends to shoot where the bead is, as does my Hatsan auto. My silenced Pedretti shot low to the point of having to cover the target with the barrels.

 

I think if you are looking straight down the rib and you know where the shot goes in relation to that you should be able to work the rest out

[wymberley]

Don't really understand how that works on a static target though

 

I have patterned most of the guns I have bought but I only do it taking a definite point of aim so I know if the shot is on the bead or above or below. My Berettas tend to put the shot cloud centred on the top of the bead so I shoot at the targets feet, my Hushpower o/u tends to shoot where the bead is, as does my Hatsan auto. My silenced Pedretti shot low to the point of having to cover the target with the barrels.

 

I think if you are looking straight down the rib and you know where the shot goes in relation to that you should be able to work the rest out

Hello, mate.

Understand what you're saying. The first point is that Paul doesn't know where his shot is going hence the exercise. My point about aiming comes from experience. If you see anyone at a plate more often than not they rifle it, all scrunched up, cheek tight down on the stock and you know that the pattern could go anywhere. This is not critical if they're doing a "standard" pattern test (ie purely pellet distribution) but Paul isn't. If you put a marker up and imagine it's a bird coming in head on and mount and shoot it as you normally would then you can be pretty sure that the pattern will go where it does when you are in the field.

It's a good idea to do a couple of dry mounts first.

Cheers

[casts_by_fly]

I'm right with Wymberley. If I just want to check a cartridge/choke combination, I will rifle it from whatever distance I want to check it at. If I'm looking to see how the gun is shooting, I'll move right in close (15 yards or so) and have a fairly large target (6" or so), enough that when the bead is put on the target, there is still target around the edge of the bead. Close my eyes and dry mount a few times to make sure I'm just using muscle memory for the correct mount. Then I'll open my eyes and do the same to make sure my muscle memory is pointing in the right spot. Then after a few good dry mounts, eyes open I'll pull the trigger on a good mount. Repeat 3 times and take the average position. At short distance, you'll have a small pattern (about 15" or so) and the shotcup will hit the paper, so seeing where all three shots went is trivial. From there you can determine if the gun is shooting high/low for you.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[paul99]

Well I just had a play with a pattern plate - two shots at 15yds whilst quickly mounting the gun and firing with no time for deliberate aiming was all I needed to show that my theory of the gun shooting consistently low is out of the window - both shots were very well centered around the 5" circle I drew in the middle of a large piece of cardboard. Without counting pellet holes it looks something like a 60 /40 split above and below with 50% either side - which I believe I've read is about bang on for a sporter / game gun?

 

As glad as I am that it appears not to be a fault with gun fitting it's left me at a bit of a loss to explain so many misses and pricked birds yesterday evening - perhaps I should just put it down to being a bad day and give it another go on the weekend with re-newed confidence that the gunfit is not to blame.

 

Thanks to all those who replied with advice it was definitely helpful...

Paul.

[sitsinhedges]

The thing with shooting live stuff is that often the shots are snapshots without time to think much about anything yet you still need to mount the gun properly for pigeon that are coming from all sorts of awkward angles. Stance and pretty much everything else seems to go out of the window with me.

 

Maybe a few dry mounts while you are waiting for action would prepare you and give you a chance to think how you will tackle the pigeons when they arrive.

 

Me, I've got my own problems with missing, those ones that come flying straight towards you at speed and just veer off at the last second, among others :unsure:

[wymberley]

Well I just had a play with a pattern plate - two shots at 15yds whilst quickly mounting the gun and firing with no time for deliberate aiming was all I needed to show that my theory of the gun shooting consistently low is out of the window - both shots were very well centered around the 5" circle I drew in the middle of a large piece of cardboard. Without counting pellet holes it looks something like a 60 /40 split above and below with 50% either side - which I believe I've read is about bang on for a sporter / game gun?

 

As glad as I am that it appears not to be a fault with gun fitting it's left me at a bit of a loss to explain so many misses and pricked birds yesterday evening - perhaps I should just put it down to being a bad day and give it another go on the weekend with re-newed confidence that the gunfit is not to blame.

 

Thanks to all those who replied with advice it was definitely helpful...

Paul.

Good oh and it's amazing what a bit of confidence will do. Out of interest, did you measure the spread of the shot from the 15 yards?

Cheers

[paul99]

The thing with shooting live stuff is that often the shots are snapshots without time to think much about anything yet you still need to mount the gun properly for pigeon that are coming from all sorts of awkward angles. Stance and pretty much everything else seems to go out of the window with me.

 

Maybe a few dry mounts while you are waiting for action would prepare you and give you a chance to think how you will tackle the pigeons when they arrive.

 

Me, I've got my own problems with missing, those ones that come flying straight towards you at speed and just veer off at the last second, among others :unsure:

 

I think you are probably onto something with all the important bits going out of the window in favour of snapshots - I was too lazy to take a hide with me yesterday and chose instead to shoot off my knees out of some waist high grass under the hedge - which although has worked ok for me in the past it really isn't a recipe for success when you stop to think about it. I also have to take into account that I'm a bit older, less flexible, not so fit and using a much heavier gun than the last time I successfully did this too. If I get some time this weekend I intend putting in a bit more effort with a decent hide with a seat etc - which should all help. Failing that it might be about time, after 10 years or so of working it out for myself, to get a shooting lesson perhaps - if nothing else to realise all the bad habits I have no doubt picked up

[paul99]

Good oh and it's amazing what a bit of confidence will do. Out of interest, did you measure the spread of the shot from the 15 yards?

Cheers

 

I did - I used the bottom barrell for both shots (presumed to be 1/2 choke) and a 9in radius (18" diameter) circle would cover 95+% of the pellet holes. Discard obvious fliers and really 99% of the pellets would have fallen inside of that circle.

[Paul223]

Pattern plates can do lots of things, you need to check for gun fit and mounting problems, try 5 shots at the plate ( hold the butt of the gun under your arm pit , focus on the plate keep your eye on the plate and mount then shoot, just like you would with a pigeon) if the gun is multi choke fit full choke and use that barrel only, if not use the tightest choke barrel, fire from 17 yards ish to your feet, this equates to 1/16 of inch adjustment to the stock for each inch on the plate or thereabouts, if gun mount is ok each pattern should over lay the others

if you happy with the gun ( and you may well be already after the quick try today) then get some practise on the clays, it will help immensely

 

hope this helps :unsure:

Edited July 29, 2010 by Paul223

[wymberley]

I did - I used the bottom barrell for both shots (presumed to be 1/2 choke) and a 9in radius (18" diameter) circle would cover 95+% of the pellet holes. Discard obvious fliers and really 99% of the pellets would have fallen inside of that circle.

 

'Morning,

That equates to 1/4. Take the following with a pinch of salt because I haven't done it for years and am relying on memory plus I also used 20 yards, but when checking at 40 yards, the spread never matched up and was always a little more open than the 20 yard figure would have you believe.

Shooting from a sitting position means that unless you consciencely lean into the shot, you will shoot high. Easy to prove. Don't know about kneeling, but as I would imagine that if you leant into the shot you would probably fall flat on your face, that the same applies.

Cheers.

[paul99]

Pattern plates can do lots of things, you need to check for gun fit and mounting problems, try 5 shots at the plate ( hold the butt of the gun under your arm pit , focus on the plate keep your eye on the plate and mount then shoot, just like you would with a pigeon) if the gun is multi choke fit full choke and use that barrel only, if not use the tightest choke barrel, fire from 17 yards ish to your feet, this equates to 1/16 of inch adjustment to the stock for each inch on the plate or thereabouts, if gun mount is ok each pattern should over lay the others

if you happy with the gun ( and you may well be already after the quick try today) then get some practise on the clays, it will help immensely

 

hope this helps

 

I'll probably repeat the excercise on the weekend at a greater distance -more for interests sake than anything now as yesterdays experiment was convincing enough for me. It's been a few months since I've shot any clays now and am starting to get the urge to have another go - but maybe it's just me I've never found even a sporting round to be tremendously beneficial to game shooting? ... apart from being good practice mounting and swinging the gun etc I tend to shoot differently at clays as it's alot easier to shoot with mantained lead at a straight flying clay rather than swinging through it as I try to do with game - not that it worked the other night though . I may well make a last minute trip to a clay ground Sunday but with 2 new ESS arriving later today I might have my work cut out sorting out the kennels instead...

 

 

'Morning,

That equates to 1/4. Take the following with a pinch of salt because I haven't done it for years and am relying on memory plus I also used 20 yards, but when checking at 40 yards, the spread never matched up and was always a little more open than the 20 yard figure would have you believe.

Shooting from a sitting position means that unless you consciencely lean into the shot, you will shoot high. Easy to prove. Don't know about kneeling, but as I would imagine that if you leant into the shot you would probably fall flat on your face, that the same applies.

Cheers.

 

You may very well be right, it sounds like the gun could possible be 1/4 and 1/2 then - TBH I had guessed at 1/2 and Full simply due to the sheer volume of Baikals out with 1/2 and full. I can't see any markings on mine to tell me so next time I'm at a gunsmith I will get them to check it - again for interests sake really I've never been that hung up on chokeing - it's down to me to get the lead in the right place at the right time and if I do that then, for the shooting I do, the choke shouldn't make a great deal of difference, at the range some of the birds were the other night Skeet or even Cylinder would have been ample.

 

Your right though kneeling doesn't makes for very poor balanace and the tendency is to fall forwards - which could well explain why most shots appeared to go low - a far more probable cause of the problem than gun fit now you come to mention it :unsure:. Might try and sneak a few hours in this afternoon if all goes well at work to see if I can shake off the current bad form