Colster Posted December 11, 2010 Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 I agree with shropshire lad, at 20 yards you will need to hold under if it's zeroed at 100 for a headshot Hold over, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 11, 2010 Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 Redgum, maybe the first two shots dirtied the barrel and improved the accuracy! Alot of people have different cleaning regimes ! Some say it shoots badly when clean! Spot on, but I have also fired on paper with a clean barrel and maybe the group has opened out half inch, still accurate enough for a head shot on a rabbit. Mind you it could have just been me. When you have been walking miles and shooting off sticks it can make so much differance. Let me say before I launch off on one, I make no suggestion about anyone specifically here! This is a pet issue with me as many know, CLEAN BARRELS shoot brilliantly, the fact is many think a quick pull through with a Poxy .17 Bore snake cleans a barrel, and then complain after it shot better before. Cleaning a barrel takes time, but once clean, one, or just maybe two shots, absolute max to clean out any deposits you left, will have it shooting 100%. Many clean quickly and badly, raise copper fowling and then complain it doesn't shoot straight, is it any wonder? Cleaning a barrel takes time and patience, something society today seems woefully short of! ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentKill Posted December 11, 2010 Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 Let me say before I launch off on one, I make no suggestion about anyone specifically here! This is a pet issue with me as many know, CLEAN BARRELS shoot brilliantly, the fact is many think a quick pull through with a Poxy .17 Bore snake cleans a barrel, and then complain after it shot better before. Cleaning a barrel takes time, but once clean, one, or just maybe two shots, absolute max to clean out any deposits you left, will have it shooting 100%. Many clean quickly and badly, raise copper fowling and then complain it doesn't shoot straight, is it any wonder? Cleaning a barrel takes time and patience, something society today seems woefully short of! ATB! It seems to be a major personal choice. just remember a bad workman is always quick to blame his tools. However there are exceptions for everyone. My .22 Ruger for example, uses a Volquartson Carbon barrel, had it since 1997. according to my records its shot circa 35000 rounds, probably around 30000 of those have been CCI Mini mag (copper coated rounds) and i reckon i have cleaned it 3 times since ive had it? its not a bunny gun its a competition target gun used from 10m to 50m on turning and static targets mainly rapid fire. I think if i cleaned it now it may well dissolve the barrel! :unsure: However i will be cleaning my new HMR when it arrives, but only on the recommendation of others at my club who own and shoot them weekly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted December 11, 2010 Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) Let me say before I launch off on one, I make no suggestion about anyone specifically here! This is a pet issue with me as many know, CLEAN BARRELS shoot brilliantly, the fact is many think a quick pull through with a Poxy .17 Bore snake cleans a barrel, and then complain after it shot better before. Cleaning a barrel takes time, but once clean, one, or just maybe two shots, absolute max to clean out any deposits you left, will have it shooting 100%. Many clean quickly and badly, raise copper fowling and then complain it doesn't shoot straight, is it any wonder? Cleaning a barrel takes time and patience, something society today seems woefully short of! ATB! The little round certainly gets some posts over the cleaning regimes. I know one thing for sure and thats there are many rifle barrels that have hit the recyclin bin early because of over enthusiastic scrubbing with a bronze brush. My brother in law was a competition marksman in the armed forces and he reckons that after the last practice before a comp the guns would be put away dirty. The barrel is only clean for one shot, what about the second and third etc. Good maintenance is important to stop rusting and clogged rifling. Rimmies don't have the problems of metal pieces going up the barrel from the primer so maybe cleaning isnt quite as important,but any gun going away for an extended period should have a layer of oil over the inner barrel( all metal for that matter). If it works for you then thats whats best. Edited December 11, 2010 by Redgum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrelsniffer Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 Just read all the posts and unless i missed one..no one mentioned the ammo..all 17gn hornady have you not tried the other makes ? as everyone knows some rifles are fussy with what make ammo gets put through.. Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 The little round certainly gets some posts over the cleaning regimes. I know one thing for sure and thats there are many rifle barrels that have hit the recyclin bin early because of over enthusiastic scrubbing with a bronze brush. personally i like to use a good copper solvent and leave it in soak overnight, then there is no need to scrub the barrel to within an inch of its life. It's a common mistake to make, i know i've done it before, but nthe barrel of a gun should only need a few swipes with the brush then the patch until it's clean. As for minimag 22lrs, they're only copper washed, there is a big difference between them and a copper jacket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 The little round certainly gets some posts over the cleaning regimes. I know one thing for sure and thats there are many rifle barrels that have hit the recyclin bin early because of over enthusiastic scrubbing with a bronze brush............... Frankly I don't, it may well be some have been screwed up by BAD cleaning, always follow manufacturers instructions, and there was a time Tikka advised NOT to use a brush at all on some of their barrels as the rifling was so fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 Frankly I don't, it may well be some have been screwed up by BAD cleaning, always follow manufacturers instructions, and there was a time Tikka advised NOT to use a brush at all on some of their barrels as the rifling was so fine! Do you ever talk to your gunsmith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentKill Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 Surely if the rifling was so fine it would be even more imperative to clean the barrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 Surely if the rifling was so fine it would be even more imperative to clean the barrel Clean yep, but NOT by over enthusiastic use of the brush! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 The little round certainly gets some posts over the cleaning regimes. I know one thing for sure and thats there are many rifle barrels that have hit the recyclin bin early because of over enthusiastic scrubbing with a bronze brush........ Frankly I don't, it may well be some have been screwed up by BAD cleaning, always follow manufacturers instructions, and there was a time Tikka advised NOT to use a brush at all on some of their barrels as the rifling was so fine! Do you ever talk to your gunsmith? No barrel will get screwed up by over enthusiastic scrubbing IF the barrel can deal with it, on some barrels it is not recommended, but the brushes tend to be FAR softer than the barrels and the cock ups occur from NOT adhering to manufacturers instructions or cleaning BADLY. There is no such thing as over enthusiastic scrubbing on appropriate barrels. Gunsmiths tend to have to deal with idiots who have no idea of cleaning and always blame someone or something else! I have been scrubbing barrels for 40 years and NEVER screwed one up yet, not even my Tikka .223 which positively says NO NOT SCRUB!! My barrels are enthusiastically cleaned, shoot straight and do not take loads of shots to shoot straight again after a clean, so help me understand why others screw up barrels and suggest theres shoot better dirty! Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 Dekers if there was one answer and a clean barrel shot best or a dirty barrel shot best there would be no need for debate. There must be scientific answer to this. I clean my hmr properly every six months or so but to be honest, apart from a little copper fouling in the early days I see hardly any now. When I mean clean it properly I mean systematically cleaning with Brunox then Hoppes copper terminator alternatly leaving the hoppes in for ten minutes until absolutly nowt comes out. After a major clean the first 5 shots will not group well,one day I will clean inbetween each shot to see if the shots go in the same place. Day to day cleaning will just be running a dry patch down the barrel just to take out the loose stuff,if the gun gets a soaking then I will put a bit of 303 on a patch and clean out before reusing the gun, for me this works. My 243 shoots virtually the same dirty or clean so I keep it clean. Maybe a dirty barrel makes a better gas seal for the mass manufactured little round,maybe someone with a crono could check the speed from a clean and dirty barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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