Canada geese

[Dekers]

I think you'll find I 'harp on' about the legal requirements of the OGL on just about every post where people ask about shooting the species covered by said licence.

 

I don't feel 'bloodlust' during the season, and I wouldn't feel it if I were to shoot Canada's out of season either. My point was, and still is, that there are plenty on here who shoot Canada's not because they're causing a problem but simply because they're on the OGL. As I've said they should be taken off the OGL and if they're to be culled then a special licence (similar to that for Cormorant) applied for. If anyone's got good reason to control them fine, if it stops the casual 'Ooh Canada's are on the OGL, let's shoot them' brigade then even better.

 

 

I totally agree with bits of this, far too many have NO IDEA of what the GL is about and simply hear something is on the GL and think they can just shoot it...this is very wrong in some cases.

 

However, the Canada is a real inland issue these days, as I said in a post above, which has not been questioned yet, I feel there are more Canadas inland than any other Duck/Goose and their numbers are constantly growing. Comparing the Canadas with Cormorant is not realistic, the Canadas DO need controlling!

 

ATB!

Edited February 3, 2011 by Dekers

[poontang]

I totally agree with bits of this, far too many have NO IDEA of what the GL is about and simply hear something is on the GL and think they can just shoot it...this is very wrong in some cases.

 

However, the Canada is a real inland issue these days, as I said in a post above, which has not been questioned yet, I feel there are more Canadas inland than any other Duck/Goose and their numbers are constantly growing. Comparing the Canadas with Cormorant is not realistic, the Canadas DO need controlling!

 

 

 

ATB!

 

Dekers,

 

Whilst I would agree that there are occasions when Canada's need to be culled my point about a special licensing system was aimed at stopping the 'shoot them for the sake of it' types, as it's unlikely they would bother applying for such a licence?.

 

You're quite right in saying that Canada's are probably more of a pest inland, and hopefully this can shed some light on the reasons why?

 

It is reported that their distribution may have been assisted by man's accidental intervention in the 1950s. The bird had been deemed a rural pest and so roundup was begun while the birds were in moult, to relocate them to less contentious areas. The sites generally chosen were Council-run lakes, parks, reservoirs, gravel pits and ornamental gardens. It was not widely understood at that time that Canada geese are naturally sedentary. When left alone their population stayed level due to the constraints of food and breeding. When they were moved these constraints disappeared and the birds bred prodigiously, creating a rapid population explosion. The birds have since adapted to coexist with man to the point where they are becoming serious pests. They appear a naturally aggressive bird and they will compete with other wildfowl for food, especially if provided by man, typically children with bread or equivalent. It has been reported that people have been pecked or aggressively bitten, with a couple of instances of people being knocked off their feet.

 

[Dekers]

Dekers,

 

Whilst I would agree that there are occasions when Canada's need to be culled my point about a special licensing system was aimed at stopping the 'shoot them for the sake of it' types, as it's unlikely they would bother applying for such a licence?.

 

You're quite right in saying that Canada's are probably more of a pest inland, and hopefully this can shed some light on the reasons why?

 

It is reported that their distribution may have been assisted by man's accidental intervention in the 1950s. The bird had been deemed a rural pest and so roundup was begun while the birds were in moult, to relocate them to less contentious areas. The sites generally chosen were Council-run lakes, parks, reservoirs, gravel pits and ornamental gardens. It was not widely understood at that time that Canada geese are naturally sedentary. When left alone their population stayed level due to the constraints of food and breeding. When they were moved these constraints disappeared and the birds bred prodigiously, creating a rapid population explosion. The birds have since adapted to coexist with man to the point where they are becoming serious pests. They appear a naturally aggressive bird and they will compete with other wildfowl for food, especially if provided by man, typically children with bread or equivalent. It has been reported that people have been pecked or aggressively bitten, with a couple of instances of people being knocked off their feet.

 

 

 

Agree with the rationale ref the GL! The GL's are not exactly difficult to understand, but many simply don't even try.

 

Where did you find this other quote, it seems very close to my findings, the Canadas take over, push other birds aside, and seem to be non stop s******g machines!

 

I also made the point earlier, Wildfowlers stuck in coastal areas appear to have no real idea of the grief these things cause inland! They may well struggle to find any to shoot, simply because they live hear now! Can't remember the last time I took a shotgun to one, it's ground cull with the rifle almost exclusively.

 

And they Can/Do eat well, just be careful where it has been living for the last few months and make sure that it isn't a pensioner!

 

ATB!

[Paul223]

Great someone read the link

 

I think it's like the brown hare, I'd never shoot one round this way, and i go out lamping a certain area to remove predators to help the hare, yet there are others on this forum who shoot hares in great numbers, an example is one fella who uses a 25-06 and leaves the fallen where they drop, thats how dense the numbers are in his area, now I would never think of complaining about or judging his situation

 

the same applies to Canada's some people have large numbers which do cause problems (the very reason they are on the GL) it's their problem, leave em to it rather than judge on a situation that you know nowt about

 

simples

[Paul223]

 

Where did you find this other quote, it seems very close to my findings, the Canadas take over, push other birds aside, and seem to be non stop s******g machines!

 

here

http://www.crofting.org/uploads/The_Management_of_Problems_caused_by_Canada_Geese.doc

 

[markbivvy]

, Canada Geese are not regarded as a very ‘sporting shot’ by many wildfowlers and the numbers shot each year are relatively small.

 

 

 

All lies will be the cry no doubt.

Edited February 3, 2011 by markbivvy

[anser2]

I Do not know where you got the idea canadas are not sporting or few are shot. Thousands are shot every year. I do not know a wildfowler who will pass one up given the chance. Paul as one who has tried it many times i can assure you rockets do work and have always been my first line in moving the geese on.They have never failed. In many cases where there is a problem with a couple of flights will get them to leave the area. On one local estate where there were 2 thousand canadas 20 years ago two shoots a year were sufficent to break up the flocks and move them of. For the past 10 years its been rare to get more than 40 canadas on the estate.

 

They can be a problem in public parks , where no form of shooting can be used but rockets do the job here. The other answer is to stop the public feeding them. There is very little natural food in such places and they mainly come for the food the public give them. take away the feeding and the majority of geese will move on. And thats easy to do when backed up with a bylaw. In my county major control measures , egg pricking , rounding up flightless birds and shooting has resulted in a massive plumit in numbers in the county.

 

As for farming damage again rockets will do the job and nationaly they probably do less dammage than pheasants. Look at a field of spring corn and the dammage pheasants can do to that , but I do not hear a call to shoot pheasants out of season. There are only two places where canadas cause serious problems , public parks and nature reserves. Farmland dammage is easily delt with and mainly happens when flightless birds walk out of a moulting water and graze summer crops. A electric fence is the answer here.

 

Its time the govenment woke up to the abuse of these birds in the spring and summer and demanded the same conditions as when controling other geese out of season , a specific licence and a limited take number. They are a valued quarry species and deserve to be treated the same as other game species with a closed season.

[poontang]

Agree with the rationale ref the GL! The GL's are not exactly difficult to understand, but many simply don't even try.

 

Where did you find this other quote, it seems very close to my findings, the Canadas take over, push other birds aside, and seem to be non stop s******g machines!

 

I also made the point earlier, Wildfowlers stuck in coastal areas appear to have no real idea of the grief these things cause inland! They may well struggle to find any to shoot, simply because they live hear now! Can't remember the last time I took a shotgun to one, it's ground cull with the rifle almost exclusively.

 

And they Can/Do eat well, just be careful where it has been living for the last few months and make sure that it isn't a pensioner!

 

ATB!

 

I'll dig out the article for you, I couldn't download Pauls link, unsafe site apparently :o

 

The OGL's are really quite straightforward, but it never ceases to amaze me just how many people read what they want into them.

 

I don't agree with your point about 'fowlers not understanding the grief caused by inland birds, I'm sure they do. To be honest I should think quite a high proportion of 'fowlers don't live on the coast, and have seen first hand the mess they make and damage they can cause. I think what really gets their goat (and mine) is the way that so many people just want to blast away because they find out they're on the OGL. The poor birds been demonised by some folk on here.

 

The way I see it is if someone comes on here and says "Got a problem with Canada's on farm/golf course etc. can I shoot them legally?" I'd explain the OGL and methods to control them, no probs.

However, when people come on here and say "I've just found out Canada Geese are vermin, what's the best way to shoot them" it gets my back up, and I suspect many others too.

At the end of the day if they're genuinely causing a problem then I can see why they should be culled. However if they're nesting on a gravel pit in the middle of nowhere, doing no real harm, then I believe they should be left alone.

[Dekers]

I'll dig out the article for you, I couldn't download Pauls link, unsafe site apparently :o

 

The OGL's are really quite straightforward, but it never ceases to amaze me just how many people read what they want into them.

 

I don't agree with your point about 'fowlers not understanding the grief caused by inland birds, I'm sure they do. To be honest I should think quite a high proportion of 'fowlers don't live on the coast, and have seen first hand the mess they make and damage they can cause. I think what really gets their goat (and mine) is the way that so many people just want to blast away because they find out they're on the OGL. The poor birds been demonised by some folk on here.

 

The way I see it is if someone comes on here and says "Got a problem with Canada's on farm/golf course etc. can I shoot them legally?" I'd explain the OGL and methods to control them, no probs.

However, when people come on here and say "I've just found out Canada Geese are vermin, what's the best way to shoot them" it gets my back up, and I suspect many others too.

At the end of the day if they're genuinely causing a problem then I can see why they should be culled. However if they're nesting on a gravel pit in the middle of nowhere, doing no real harm, then I believe they should be left alone.

 

We are singing from the same hynmn sheet, my point from the start...and the phrase was....

 

Wildfowlers stuck in coastal areas appear to have no real idea of the grief these things cause inland! with that bit deliberately underlined!

[otherwayup]

... The GL's are not exactly difficult to understand, but many simply don't even try.

 

I was looking at the GL the other day and noticed something regarding the weapon definition. I've cut and pasted the relevant parts;

 

========================

 

WHAT THE LICENCE PERMITS

2. For the purposes set out in paragraph 1 above, and subject to the terms and conditions, below, this licence permits:

 

(ii) Authorised persons acting under subparagraph (2)(i) above:

 

(a) to use a semi-automatic weapon;

 

16. “semi-automatic weapon” means any weapon which is not prohibited by section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968 as amended and which has a magazine capable of holding more than two rounds of ammunition, where the depression of the trigger discharges a single shot and reloads the next, each subsequent shot requiring a further depression of the trigger.

 

========================

 

So, does that mean we can't use OU or SBS shotguns?

 

Bit of a blow if it does.

[guest1957]

So, does that mean we can't use OU or SBS shotguns?

 

Bit of a blow if it does.

 

No, it means you can use them where you otherwise would not have been able to do so

[otherwayup]

No, it means you can use them where you otherwise would not have been able to do so

How do you work that out from the parts I quoted? Which phase indicates you can use an OU or SBS?

[Dekers]

I Do not know where you got the idea canadas are not sporting or few are shot. Thousands are shot every year. I do not know a wildfowler who will pass one up given the chance. Paul as one who has tried it many times i can assure you rockets do work and have always been my first line in moving the geese on.They have never failed. In many cases where there is a problem with a couple of flights will get them to leave the area. On one local estate where there were 2 thousand canadas 20 years ago two shoots a year were sufficent to break up the flocks and move them of. For the past 10 years its been rare to get more than 40 canadas on the estate.

 

They can be a problem in public parks , where no form of shooting can be used but rockets do the job here. The other answer is to stop the public feeding them. There is very little natural food in such places and they mainly come for the food the public give them. take away the feeding and the majority of geese will move on. And thats easy to do when backed up with a bylaw. In my county major control measures , egg pricking , rounding up flightless birds and shooting has resulted in a massive plumit in numbers in the county.

 

As for farming damage again rockets will do the job and nationaly they probably do less dammage than pheasants. Look at a field of spring corn and the dammage pheasants can do to that , but I do not hear a call to shoot pheasants out of season. There are only two places where canadas cause serious problems , public parks and nature reserves. Farmland dammage is easily delt with and mainly happens when flightless birds walk out of a moulting water and graze summer crops. A electric fence is the answer here.

 

Its time the govenment woke up to the abuse of these birds in the spring and summer and demanded the same conditions as when controling other geese out of season , a specific licence and a limited take number. They are a valued quarry species and deserve to be treated the same as other game species with a closed season.

 

Oh Dear

 

1 I shoot Canadas in Public, Council owned parks with their full support and blessing, and they pay me!

2 They live on the rubbish tips too

3 On farms they do FAR more damage than Pheasant which are also controlled/farmed.

4 An electric Fence is useless with Canadas, they can fly remember, we are not interested in the one or two flightless birds (they are easy to permanently control), we are interested in the Hundreds that cause the grief.

5 They are a big problem on Golf courses, etc, actually almost all public amenities.

6 The Government has little or no interested in limiting the take of Canadas at the moment, when they do they will take them off the GL, they are out of control in many inland areas.

7 You need to get out of Norfolk and go take a look inland.

8 All the bits I've forgotten

 

Time to move on, I can see the blinkered view of Wildfowlers but as I said many posts back, they generally fail to grasp what is happening a few miles behind them!

 

Sport??? Pest Control..

 

ATB!

 

[markbivvy]

I was looking at the GL the other day and noticed something regarding the weapon definition. I've cut and pasted the relevant parts;

 

========================

 

WHAT THE LICENCE PERMITS

2. For the purposes set out in paragraph 1 above, and subject to the terms and conditions, below, this licence permits:

 

(ii) Authorised persons acting under subparagraph (2)(i) above:

 

(a) to use a semi-automatic weapon;

 

16. “semi-automatic weapon” means any weapon which is not prohibited by section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968 as amended and which has a magazine capable of holding more than two rounds of ammunition, where the depression of the trigger discharges a single shot and reloads the next, each subsequent shot requiring a further depression of the trigger.

 

========================

 

So, does that mean we can't use OU or SBS shotguns?

 

Bit of a blow if it does.

How on what,s written above have you come to that conclusion. please.

[Dekers]

How do you work that out from the parts I quoted? Which phase indicates you can use an OU or SBS?

 

Semi Autos have some odd rules about them with regard some quarry, this is simply clarifying the position with Semis and the Canada.

 

Any other rifle/shotgun capable of adequately and humanely despatching them is fine, this includes rifles with single projectiles containing lead!

 

 

PS

I speak for England, there may be slight variations around the UK!

[guest1957]

How do you work that out from the parts I quoted? Which phase indicates you can use an OU or SBS?

 

Oridnarily the law prohibits the shooting of birds with a gun having a magazine capacity greater than 2. The general licence provides for situations where you could do what the law ordinarily prohibits. So, for example the law normally probits the shooting of woodpigeon, however they can be shot under the GL to protect crops etc. So, the law normally prohibits the use of a gun with a magazine capacity greater that two to shoot birds, however the licence allows for large capacity semi-autos to be used where otherwise they would not be authorised. You with me?

[otherwayup]

How on what,s written above have you come to that conclusion. please.

Because an OU or SBS doesn't seem to fit in the description of a "semi automatic" and that's the only type of gun I can see defined in the GL.

 

I assume other shotguns are ok, but I've looked and can't find the words in the GL that say so. Please point them out to me, thanks.

[markbivvy]

Because an OU or SBS doesn't seem to fit in the description

it wont do, unless you have found one that hold more then 2 shells.

[otherwayup]

So which section or phase in the GL says you can use any other gun than a semi-auto?

[markbivvy]

Gemini, your right.

[guest1957]

Because an OU or SBS doesn't seem to fit in the description of a "semi automatic" and that's the only type of gun I can see defined in the GL.

 

I assume other shotguns are ok, but I've looked and can't find the words in the GL that say so. Please point them out to me, thanks.

 

The system of general licences exist as a run of from the 1981 Wildlife and Countryide Act. This act prohibits the shooting of all wild birds except certain game birds and certain wild ducks/geese in season. It also prohibits the use of any gun to shoot these birds with a magazine capacity greater than 2 i.e. anything larger than a 2+1 semi-auto. However, the act contains a provision for the creation of licences,as a is deemed fit by the government, that override certain provisions in the act. They should be considered as additional rights you have above and beyond the Act. So, in the case of firearms, ordinarily you would be free to use a sxs an O/U or a 2+1 semi only. However along with granting you the additional right to shoot certain birds you would not be able to ordinarily, the licences grant you the additional right to use a semi-auto with a magazine capacity of greater than 2. This is in addition to the right you have to use smaller capacity guns, not instead of.

[poontang]

So which section or phase in the GL says you can use any other gun than a semi-auto?

 

This bit.

 

(i) Authorised persons to kill or take any of the wild birds listed at (a) and b below, to take, damage or destroy their nests or to take or destroy their eggs:

 

This bit clarifies that a semi-automatic weapon may be used.

 

(ii) Authorised persons acting under subparagraph (2)(i) above:

WML - GL04 (01/11) 2

(a) to use a semi-automatic weapon;

 

This bit describes the legal definition of above weapon.

 

16. “semi-automatic weapon” means any weapon which is not prohibited by section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968 as amended and which has a magazine capable of holding more than two rounds of ammunition, where the depression of the trigger discharges a single shot and reloads the next, each subsequent shot requiring a further depression of the trigger.

[otherwayup]

The system of general licences exist as a run of from the 1981 Wildlife and Countryide Act. This act prohibits the shooting of all wild birds except certain game birds and certain wild ducks/geese in season. It also prohibits the use of any gun to shoot these birds with a magazine capacity greater than 2 i.e. anything larger than a 2+1 semi-auto. However, the act contains a provision for the creation of licences,as a is deemed fit by the government, that override certain provisions in the act. They should be considered as additional rights you have above and beyond the Act. So, in the case of firearms, ordinarily you would be free to use a sxs an O/U or a 2+1 semi only. However along with granting you the additional right to shoot certain birds you would not be able to ordinarily, the licences grant you the additional right to use a semi-auto with a magazine capacity of greater than 2. This is in addition to the right you have to use smaller capacity guns, not instead of.

Thanks for the explaination.

[guest1957]

Thanks for the explaination.

 

No worries

[worthy130]

I think that the General Licence is a complete waste of time these days, it seems to stand in place to allow people to shoot anything named on it whenever they feel, with no one to make sure that other methods of protection of the areas are tried.

 

In all honesty how many people have tried rockets and bangers to scare of pests from freshly cut maize or standing rape before deciding to go and shoot?

 

The General licence should stop being processed from country to country and focus on counties.

 

Canada Geese have just been added to the welsh GL and it really is laughable as they really arn't a problem up here in the north, yet the cowboys will soon be shooting them weather they are actually being a pest or not