Reload Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Hi folks, This is my first dog, so I bought a few books by Joe Irving to help me out. My dog will be 8 months by the end of the month and everything is going well, just playful training at the moment and nothing too serious. He sits to a hand signal, heels when told to, returns on a whistle and will retrieve feather and fur. I have just started to get him used to turning on the whistle, but again nothing serious yet. In Joe Irving's book he says not to teach a dog to walk to heel until the training is almost complete. However, I want my dog to be OK for the wife to take out too. So I jumped ahead (Maybe the wrong thing to do.)and did what he said, which wasn't a lot in fact. He said to give the dog a sharp tug on the lead and say "Heel" etc, etc. This doesn't seem to be working at all. As I say the dog comes to heel beautifully when I am stood still, the problem is keeping him there until he is told to "get on!" Can anyone help me out with this one please? It's getting really frustrating now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Taken from NTTF's Obedience Training Sticky in this section: Teaching the Heel Command Before teaching the heel command with an older dog, 5 months or more, consider whether you want the dog to look up at you while heeling. If you do,you need to teach him to catch a treat from your mouth. To do this, have your dog on a lead at your left side. If he knows the sit command; sit him. Have a treat in your mouth and make a "click" noise with your tongue. When he looks up spit the treat to him. He must catch the treat to get it. If he misses do not allow him to pick the treat up from the ground. Pick it up and repeat the drill. When he does catch praise with "good boy". Repeat until he catches reliably, he will now look up at you during training as long as you continue to deliver his rewards in this manner. Before training the heel, you must teach the dog to accept the leash. This is done by putting pup on a four foot lead; while you stand still in one place. As the pup gets to the end of the lead, give a pop and release. Continue this until pup realizes that you expect him not to pull on the lead. If he hits the end of the lead, say "phewy" with the pop on the leash and "good boy" when the lead goes slack. Remember to work 360 degrees and to add distractions as your pup understands the exercise. Week 1-2 Starting heeling is the same for both the puppy and the older dog. Start by having your pup on your left side and your lead bunched in your left hand. Hold the treat in your right hand four inches off your pups muzzle. Give the command "heel" STEP OFF ON YOUR LEFT FOOT at the same time. Pup will follow the treat forward. Use the treat to control the pups position; you want his head even with your left leg. Go forward 25 feet, pivot 180 degrees, turning on your left foot. As you come out of your pivot, toss the treat forward on the ground, give a release command..."alright".... and allow the pup to surge forward to get the treat. Praise your pup and pet him up before repeating the exercise. Weeks 3-4 This is where teaching your pup to catch the treat comes to the forfront. By now, your pup will sit beside you reliably. If your pup is not sitting reliably, do not move on. Start with your pup sitting, step off with your left foot saying "heel" at the same time. Pup will follow you, take 5 or 6 steps, click and spit the treat. Your pup must catch the treat. If he catches, heel another 5 to 6 steps, click and spit a treat. If he catches, continue forward 3 to 4 steps and make a 90 degree turn to the right. 1-2 steps click and give a treat. Release him with "all right", praise with "good boy" and play with him for 2-3 minutes. If he misses the treat, pick it up and continue forward. If he continues to miss, stop your heeling exercise and practice his catching. Remember to end on a positive note. Weeks 5-8 Continue as in weeks 3-4, however start decreasing the number of treats you are using. Also add an about face; this is a 180 degree turn. Your pup should follow you around as you pivot, having been taught this during weeks 1-2. If he lags behind during the turn, use a treat to motivate him forward again. This may mean going back to tossing treats during the pivot for a day or two. Remember this is an outline not all dogs learn in a given number of days. If pup is lagging during straight heeling, motivate with "good boy, thata pup". You may need to show him a treat to bring him back into position. If pup starts to forge ahead, change direction by 90 to 180 degrees and give a light pop on the lead. Remember to change direction by pivoting on your right foot. Heeling is started with your left foot forward, while turns are initiated with your right leg. Points to Remember - Not all dogs like cookie treats. experiment with different foods until you find one he is nuts over. ex hot dogs, cookies, cooked liver, beef jerky - Treats are very small; you are rewarding him not feeding him - If your dog has a favourite toy that he is crazy over, you can use it instead of treats - Corrections are made with a LIGHT pop; not a steady pulling motion, pop release, pop, release. I personally have never mastered heelwork with a spaniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_Lad Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 We have one that pulls like a Huskey! went to all sorts of classes and no one could get the better of her, totaly nuts! She is now 7 and I don't think things are going to change any time soon! Walks now consist of very little lead work, one major riot with her usualy ending up half a mile away then trotting back knackered. From then on its quite enjoyable with her milling about nice and close. Wish you all the best with yours and I know how frustrating it can be as they are real loveable rogues. atvb Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I've always inferred from the aversion to having spaniels heel over there that Mr. Irving and others are of the opinion that it would take something out of the dog (that could not be reinstilled). Maybe. But maybe au contraire too. Having reared my first spaniels in the city, where they had to be heeled, whether on or off lead, away from traffic, there was no choice but have them learn how. But there are no absolutes in gundog training. And if you start the heeling at 8-10 weeks old by holding a piece of kibble in front of a spaniel pup's snout and saying "Heel" as you step away from it with the pup following at your side, what could it possibly take out of the dog? A little energy, maybe. But then you replace that energy by giving the pup a piece of kibble as a reward when it's heeled six steps, then eight, then 10. And pretty soon - very soon - you've got a pup that through repetition will heel just fine. What NTF noted, essentially, just that learning heeling can be "embarked" on much earlier. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troosers Too Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Most spaniels I know seem to think that walking to heel means being in the same field as you. If your wife is really struggling, you might try a halti (if that's how you spell it) lead that has 2 loops (one for the dog's neck and one for the dog's muzzle). They don't like them very much but certainly pull a lot less. Training is the real answer but it is hard for most of us average dog owners to be really sucessful with a strong ESS. A lot of spaniel owners will tell you that their dogs will walk ok to heel off the lead but pull like trains on the lead. On thing I did notice on you post was that you said "get on" when you walked off with the dog sat by your side. Try using the "heel" command and use "Get on" as the command to go out & hunt. My springer is much keener on "Get on" than she is on "Heel" Good luck TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Halti is what you want, and I'd agree spaniels and walking strictly to heel rarely go together. especially if there is any game about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Or if your slip lead is long enough put it round the dogs neck and then form another loop and put it over his muzzle - same effect as a halti and saves a few quid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stiv24 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 If I want my spaniels to walk to heel I have to speed up a bit.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reload Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) Troosers too Thanks for your advise, but you misunderstand my use of the command "get on". When I ask my dog to "get on" I am asking him to hunt. I was merely describing that I would like my dog to heel until I give this command. When I am trying to get him to walk to heel, I use the heel command frequently. He doesn't pull on the lead, just wont walk to heel. Maybe I'm asking too much of him at the moment, but I will definitely expect him to walk to heel in the field when I have a gun. Edited February 15, 2011 by Reload Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reload Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I'll let you all know how I get on, I'll be trying out NTTF's heel training v soon. Stiv24, that's what I said to the mrs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 He doesn't pull on the lead, just wont walk to heel. That IS a spaniel at heel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) got same problem with my bitch mate . read the books and thought healing will wait till later -- big mistake :( on lead perfect , but if i want her to heal off lead if we're beating/rough shooting/general walk etc bl**dy nightmare. i,ve been trying all sorts for the last 4 months to get her to heal up while we are just walking along , i reach forward and pull her back or into me everytime she gets a foot ahead , change direction every 10 yards , and i,ve stopped her free running/hunting , i,ll keep at her till she gets it ( hopefully ). keep calling her too you and tapp your leg and praise her over and over again only 8 months till next season Edited February 16, 2011 by darren m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 my mates spaniel has just about started walking to heel and doing what its meant to, she is 12 though Personally if you want a dog to walk strictly to heel you got the wrong dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 took a bloke out for a lesson yesterday, his springer pulled like a train and would'nt come back on recall when off the lead.went to an enclosed park so we could do some recall work, which i've told him to continue in and around the house until he's 100% and then take himback to the park where there's distractions.anyway had the springer walking to heel ON and OFF the lead in less than an hour. the thing with all training is consistancy and 99% of the time it's down to our failings not the dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reload Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Congratulations pegleg, Are you not going to share with us how this came about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reload Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 No joy at all with the NTTF walking to heel training. He just got faster trying to get the treat, when in front of his nose... Then he was jumping up at me when I put the treat in my mouth to try and spit the thing out for him... Lol... On a better note, I've been having success by putting the slip lead on, and tightening up just behind the ears. He has responded really well to this and is coming on a treat. When I slow down now, he feels the weight of the lead and heels in. Thanks to Larp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) glad things are working out for you and remember it's all down to consistency a couple of things that you could also try that has worked well for me in the past. 1; walking the dog to heel on the lead when ever the dog pulls infront yank the dog back hard and say NO HEEL as soon as he's walking where you want priase him as soon as he pulls yank him back and repeat the words.yank him that hard he flips over if he insists on pulling hard.i garauntee you'll see results in 15 minutes.i had blisters last sunday from this i had to take over from the owner because he was all over letting the dog get in front and then trying to enforce the heel command . as soon as he's walking comfortably to heel on the lead take the lead off, place it over the shoulder you keep the dog to heel on.and set off walking your dog to heel, as soon as he steps out of line whip your dog with the lead (use a light lead, the idea is to break the dogs attention not to inflict pain).your dog will soon get the idea 2; walking the dog to heel with the aid of a heel stick find a thin piece of willow a bit like a horse whip.walk the dog on the lead to heel while waving the stick from left to right infront of you making sure you wave it infront of the dog.if the dog tries to get in front the stick will catch it's nose.if it get's to far infront give it a sharp crack on the backside (again use a thin stick so not to hurt the dog) and repeat until it's walking nice on the lead.remove the lead when your confident the dog's heeling well enough and carry on the same without the lead. i'm sure people will disagree with me but my spaniels walk to heel and i'll garuantee i will be able to get 99% of dog's to heel using these methods.if you want a dog to heel like a lab with it walking tight to your thigh pm me and i'll give you more advice.however i'd be happy with a spaniel being at my side Edited February 28, 2011 by pegleg31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 ... remember it's all down to consistency a couple of things that you could also try that has worked well for me in the past. 1; walking the dog to heel on the lead when ever the dog pulls infront yank the dog back hard and say NO HEEL as soon as he's walking where you want priase him as soon as he pulls yank him back and repeat the words.yank him that hard he flips over if he insists on pulling hard.i garauntee you'll see results in 15 minutes.i had blisters last sunday from this i had to take over from the owner because he was all over letting the dog get in front and then trying to enforce the heel command . as soon as he's walking comfortably to heel on the lead take the lead off, place it over the shoulder you keep the dog to heel on.and set off walking your dog to heel, as soon as he steps out of line whip your dog with the lead (use a light lead, the idea is to break the dogs attention not to inflict pain).your dog will soon get the idea 2; walking the dog to heel with the aid of a heel stick find a thin piece of willow a bit like a horse whip.walk the dog on the lead to heel while waving the stick from left to right infront of you making sure you wave it infront of the dog.if the dog tries to get in front the stick will catch it's nose.if it get's to far infront give it a sharp crack on the backside (again use a thin stick so not to hurt the dog) and repeat until it's walking nice on the lead.remove the lead when your confident the dog's heeling well enough and carry on the same without the lead. i'm sure people will disagree with me but my spaniels walk to heel and i'll garuantee i will be able to get 99% of dog's to heel using these methods.if you want a dog to heel like a lab with it walking tight to your thigh pm me and i'll give you more advice.however i'd be happy with a spaniel being at my side No disagreement, Peg, that's the foolproof way to deal with teaching an adult dog or older pup to heel. The treating with a 10-12 week old works aces, however, and by having them heel reliably at that age (spaniels and retrievers alike), one can get on with his "training programme." Which for training with the e-collar is based on "known commands" of sit, heel and here (come). Now why would one wish to have a pup so compliant so soon? To reiterate it's ecause the e-collar training programme is based on known commands - and you aren't punishing a pup for doing wrong, you're using those commands to help the dog do right at more advanced levels of training. WGD, I just perused a long thread on gundog training forum where Martin Deeley explained how he trains with an e-collar - "tapping at a distance." As it turns out, it's not the right or wrong way, just an almost obsolete method known as direct pressure that is little used by retriever trainers in the US (and fewer spaniel trainers as they learn what "indirect pressure" [based on a dog responding to known commands as above] can do about minimizing actual collar use (stimulation). Incidentally, this method came into vogue because American retrievers hardly ever have the collar applied once they've been trained up to a certain level, but might occasionally need a reminder at a great distance. (Not a distance Martin might be familiar with, say 100 yards, but four times that far out.) Anyhow, I digress. Pegleg's recommendation for getting any gundog to heel - again as a dog or older pup - is very "workable." MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 cracker, i thought the OP's dog is 8 month's?(not having a go, just confused ).if i was training a young pup to heel (after it had become comfortable to having a lead on) i'd use method 1 be be alot more gentle.consistancy is the key and i can't say that enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 You're right, Peg, I only was clarifying why or why not that the treating bit would be successful as somewhat dependent on a dog (or pup's) age. This one was heeling for me to a treat first time she got out of the saloon at eight weeks old and has never stopped - even when heeling alongside toward home with what she's picked (unless I jump ahead and get a quick snap). Once that consistency's ingrained, it's all good. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reload Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Cheers Pegleg, Loads to be getting on with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 its ok Peg till you injure ones spine flipping it over, there is a narrow line on that kind of treatment between achieving a heel and achieving a very big vets bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 its ok Peg till you injure ones spine flipping it over, there is a narrow line on that kind of treatment between achieving a heel and achieving a very big vets bill never hurt a dog yet , what works for me won't work for others.i guess it all boils down to what standard you want your dog at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larp Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 No joy at all with the NTTF walking to heel training. He just got faster trying to get the treat, when in front of his nose... Then he was jumping up at me when I put the treat in my mouth to try and spit the thing out for him... Lol... On a better note, I've been having success by putting the slip lead on, and tightening up just behind the ears. He has responded really well to this and is coming on a treat. When I slow down now, he feels the weight of the lead and heels in. Thanks to Larp. :good:glad you have some success you have my phone no ring any time phil (larp) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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