Steve'o Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Hi Bought some Lyalvale Special 20 Gauge 25g no.6 65mm Fibres wad carts. On one box it reads ; 'FIBRE WAD & BIO-DEGRADABLE OBTURATOR' and on the other; 'FIBRE WAD PLUS PLASTIC OBTURATOR' Can anybody shed any light on what an ' OBTURATOR ' is the only thing I can think of, is if you have ever used FOB Fibre wad carts in 12 bore, some are see though and show a small fibre wad then a PLASTIC like washer/wad? So are these not a true fibre cart ? Also have seen this in shooting mag's on 12g cart reviews , they cut the cart open saying its fibre but under a small fibre wad is a plastic wad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 The obturator is a small plastic overpowder gas seal . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Top of the page. http://www.claygame.co.uk/Cat22Page11SmallBore.pdf Apparently more efficient than an over powder card. It's what I use for my 20g reloads as much because they are cheaper than anything but I think you are also supposed to get better performance because they seal better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve'o Posted March 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Thanks for your info So are they not a true Fibre cart then if using this seal ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 yes they are, some bio degradable plastics are made with starch from corn and other carbohydrate bio factories. they have a chemical inside them that speeds up the breakdown of the plastic polymer bonds. UV exposure accelerates the decomposition of plastic biowads (and most plastics for that matter). plastic does fit and flex down the bore better (assuming they are the right sizes.) underbore barrels / overbore barrels can make a difference. i try to use overpowder cards, with fibre wads. just because they can be used to change the height of the various carts i make. cook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Actually, the best felt wads obturate (or spread out to seal the bore) very well. There are combination wads that are a mixture of plastic and fibre and are probably a bit cheaper so they can say fibre but don't have to say 100% fibre. which is a bit of a cheat. Despite a whole lot of hype over many years I have never seen anything to convince me that plastic wads of whatever type are put in cartridges for the benefit of the shooter. They are used because they are easier/ cheaper for manufacturer. All the talk of better patterns, better this or better that is for the most part just self justification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Actually, the best felt wads obturate (or spread out to seal the bore) very well. There are combination wads that are a mixture of plastic and fibre and are probably a bit cheaper so they can say fibre but don't have to say 100% fibre. which is a bit of a cheat. Despite a whole lot of hype over many years I have never seen anything to convince me that plastic wads of whatever type are put in cartridges for the benefit of the shooter. They are used because they are easier/ cheaper for manufacturer. All the talk of better patterns, better this or better that is for the most part just self justification. I think that if fibre and plastic were equal we wouldn't see the need to put far more powder in a fibre wad recipe to keep the velocities on an even footing. In that case I would suggest that plastic is far more effective than fibre as well as cheaper and easier to load, shame that it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) Some obturators break down when exposed to sunlight. Edited March 6, 2011 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Actually, the best felt wads obturate (or spread out to seal the bore) very well. There are combination wads that are a mixture of plastic and fibre and are probably a bit cheaper so they can say fibre but don't have to say 100% fibre. which is a bit of a cheat. Despite a whole lot of hype over many years I have never seen anything to convince me that plastic wads of whatever type are put in cartridges for the benefit of the shooter. They are used because they are easier/ cheaper for manufacturer. All the talk of better patterns, better this or better that is for the most part just self justification. plastic wads do prevent shot deformation. fibre wads do seal poorly. lead is hardened with antimony to stop it deforming as much. what you are saying is a very blanket response. there are some brilliant plastic wads, also some "tihsgod" ones.the helarco ones arnt my first choice they are the basic "will do" wad. the gualani g wads are very innovative and better than 90% of the plastic wads available. they seal very well, they give open and closed patterns. dependent on wad / shot. i have had a major cartridge failure with fibre wads, 2 wads were loaded (no shot) in a rio shell, pulled the trigger. god albighty bang and some smoking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 plastic wads do prevent shot deformation. fibre wads do seal poorly. lead is hardened with antimony to stop it deforming as much. what you are saying is a very blanket response. there are some brilliant plastic wads, also some "tihsgod" ones.the helarco ones arnt my first choice they are the basic "will do" wad. the gualani g wads are very innovative and better than 90% of the plastic wads available. they seal very well, they give open and closed patterns. dependent on wad / shot. i have had a major cartridge failure with fibre wads, 2 wads were loaded (no shot) in a rio shell, pulled the trigger. god albighty bang and some smoking. I thought the Helarco Vagner VP's were quite good, I certainly wouldn't call them basic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 I thought the Helarco Vagner VP's were quite good, I certainly wouldn't call them basic. they have had a few issues with some of their wads. mainly burning through the gas seal. they changed the polymer blend to stop this. (only certain high pressure recipes.) they recalled alot back. they wouldnt be my first choice. i`m not a big fan of the aguilla/cheditte wads either. it would take something special to beat those wads on performance. infact they are sold and distributed under many names. they have the brush wad, scatter wad, piston skeet, short,g magnum,light field, steel type. all have a great powder seal section, check em out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 . (only certain high pressure recipes.) they recalled alot back.they have had a few issues with some of their wads. mainly burning through the gas seal. they changed the polymer blend to stop thisthey wouldnt be my first choice. i`m not a big fan of the aguilla/cheditte wads either. it would take something special to beat those wads on performance. infact they are sold and distributed under many names. they have the brush wad, scatter wad, piston skeet, short,g magnum,light field, steel type. all have a great powder seal section, check em out. Thought that was just the VP13s made in the USA for the US market, dodgy mould or some such Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Thought that was just the VP13s made in the USA for the US market, dodgy mould or some such the plastic resin was melting at the gas seal. it was a couple of wads. the steel type would be tough as old boots anyway. they just made them alittle tougher. (cheaper than making a whole new injection moulding dies.) i just dont think they are great. i`d use them though at a push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 It happened through the whole range I believe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK fowler Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 always thought VP wads are sh#t first used vp70 about six years ago through half of them in the bin pound for pound you are hard pressed to beat gualandi there lbc steel wads are top notch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 always thought VP wads are sh#t first used vp70 about six years ago through half of them in the bin pound for pound you are hard pressed to beat gualandi there lbc steel wads are top notch +1 i like the short field spreader wads, they just look really cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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