slugger Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 ok, its difficult to work out what all the numbers mean on my bottle [im trying to work out how many fills i can expect from it / how often i need to get it filled] ..... from what i can work out i "think" its....... 8.35 litres ? wp 207 bar [working pressure?] tp 345 bar [total pressure?] so first question, when i get it filled, will they fill to 207 bar ? or 345 bar? and have i guessed the litres bit right [bottle is 600 mm tall x 570mm around] so, assuming they fill it to the wp, and assuming wp = working pressure [207 bar which is about 3000 psi] how many fills can i expect from my s410 classic [longer than carbine] hope someone is good at this stuff ? also [gotta ask while i remember] could my bottle be filled to the tp [345 bar]? and if so, will i have to get a new regulated filler/connector thingy....... or could i get away with being bloody carefull with the tap ? sorry for all the questions, but i gotta learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houseplant Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 wp = working pressure: do not exceed this! tp = test pressure 8 litre cylinders do exist, but they are not common. the common sizes are 7L, 10L, 12L and 15L. hth andrew (diver, not pcp user!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome of the Woods Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 If you fill to 170bar and then refill when it drops to 100bar you will get about 15 fills from your bottle. No one will fill past the WP and often under fill due to the heat created during the process. Once the bottle has cooled down it will be at a lower pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugger Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 thanks guys 15 fills is a bit dissapointing tho........ had the gun 4 days and used 10 already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 ok, its difficult to work out what all the numbers mean on my bottle [im trying to work out how many fills i can expect from it / how often i need to get it filled] ..... from what i can work out i "think" its....... 8.35 litres ? wp 207 bar [working pressure?] tp 345 bar [total pressure?] so first question, when i get it filled, will they fill to 207 bar ? or 345 bar? and have i guessed the litres bit right [bottle is 600 mm tall x 570mm around] so, assuming they fill it to the wp, and assuming wp = working pressure [207 bar which is about 3000 psi] how many fills can i expect from my s410 classic [longer than carbine] hope someone is good at this stuff ? also [gotta ask while i remember] could my bottle be filled to the tp [345 bar]? and if so, will i have to get a new regulated filler/connector thingy....... or could i get away with being bloody carefull with the tap ? sorry for all the questions, but i gotta learn Look at the info on the crown of your cylinder; it will have the “size” Ie 7/8/9/10/12 Ltr etc As in the other post 207 wp is the working pressure and tp is the pressure it will be tested to. For the volume, the maths is quite simple, Eg (lts) 7 X 207wp = 1449 lts of air. The volume of your gun is what? 400cc If so Amount : 400 cubic centimetre (cc - cm³) Equals : 0.40 litre so .40x207=82 lts In simple top up your gun from your full dive bottle, and plink away until the shots drop off, make a note of the performance and you will know when to top up the gun. The best way if the pocket allows is to have a 300bar bottle and decant to your gun, however it will require carful filling as the pressure difference is vast, and you don’t want to over fill your gun! Plus side, not so many trips to the dive shop Minus side getting a 300bar pump, and damaging your gun! TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 If you can leave the bottle in the shop they'll let it cool then top it up. My local shop stands the bottles in water to cool them if you're waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugger Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 hmm....... that works out at 17 fills........spose you lose a couple in "not enough pressure left to fill upto 170 bar" plus i guess you waste a fair bit with the bleeding each time you fill....... my nearest dive shop is 20+ miles away and coz of the narrow lanes etc its nearly an hour to get there......bumms maybe i should look out for another dive bottle..........may work out cheaper in the long run ive done a test..... if i fill to 170/180 bar........i can get 80-85 good shots before power drops to below 11 ft/lbs [lots of pellet drop if i carry on past this point]so realistically im looking at filling my big bottle every 2 tins of pellets.......which works out fortnightly [while im still enthusiastic] so a second bottle will turn it into a monthly trip to the dive shop, thats not so bad anyone else noticed the guage on the gun is rubbish ? when ive filled [even upto 190 bar]the gun-guage only shows 150/155 bar....... 80 shots later its showing 100 bar [which is more realistic] but i guess so long as you think of it as a "guide" rather than a prescision gauge, its all good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome of the Woods Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 207 is the lowest pressure bottle you can get! there was a 12lt 300bar bottle on here, that would last you alot loner When I get home I will post the approx number of fills from each size and pressure of bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugger Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 now that would be good info, praps make it a sticky ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubshot Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Check out Barry's Reference Page http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/1468227 Also http://www.midlanddiving.co.uk Main UK Importer and manufacture - Has a detailed Web page BOB/R Edited March 21, 2011 by Clubshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome of the Woods Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Remembering theses are for a S4XX classic filled to 170bar and refilled at 100bar. And are approximate! 300bar 12ltr 105 7lt 61 3lt 26 232bar 12ltr 50 7ltr 29 3ltr 12 207bar 12ltr 29 7ltr 17 3ltr 7 You can see why everybody recommends spending the extra and getting a 300 bar bottle! A lot less refills. The file I use to work it out. number-of-fills-v15.xls Edited March 21, 2011 by Gnome of the Woods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugger Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 wow, thanks guys, great info here i must confess this morning i was have a google nightmare finding dive shops/gunshops etc that could fill my bottle [even the one i mentioned that nearly an hour away was closed, or at least not answering the phone but i struck gold, and thanks to you lot i managed to "sound" like i knew enough to not get ripped off got myself a really nice chap 15 miles away that does gasses.......welding gasses/dive gasses etc...... he sold me a second hand 15 litre bottle [still at 200 odd bar, not 300] for 100 quid, plus he filled it, and my existing one for nowt extra......and we agreed very exceptable terms for future refills [like less than a tenner to fill both] also, he filled it, let it cool [while i took me dog charlie for a walk] and topped it up to just a smidge over wp...... he's had decades in the business and said its perfectly safe, and will give me another gun-fill or 2 so im a happy chappy........then i went [on the recomendation of the guy and his mate] to a hardly known gunshop nearby [was his brither in laws busines] and struck an awsome deal on an s200 for my lad...... today has been truly awesome, knowledge and toys, what more could you want i simply must give the gas-man a mention coz he was such a helpfull and generous guy, plus if any of you lot live/find yourself around his neck of the woods and need a top-up , he's got to be worth putting in your phonebook his name is ray nash, and the company name is R&R GASSES www.randrgasses.co.uk thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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