Fox calibre Advice

[al4x]

take the filter off and use a dimmer

 

however they do run away from you on occasions and stop when they think they are safe, occasionally I have a shot at reasonable range but it will be pretty much off bags on the pickup roof so pretty much bench rest shooting. I'd not have a hornet simply due to the margin for error factor and if I'm using a centrefire I want a certain punch behind it. If I want safety in a difficult to shoot area I use the HMR

[Spike Reeve]

I don't see any mention of the .204, is this not considered a good fox calibre ?

 

Just curious.

 

.204 is another good cal. Fast, very flat better BC than 22-250 and 243, low recoil low powder consuption for reloads.

But can be a nightmare finding the right factory ammo and load development i a long winded process for first time shooters. Also getting hold of a .204 rifle is a nightmare. (ok theres plenty on guntrader howa, the odd browning) you try getting a new sako 85 in .204. 6 month wait from GMK

 

I love posts like these because everyone has thier personal favourite cal and defend it to the hilt!

thing is everyone is right! everyones different and all reqirements are different.

 

some people like one rifle to do it all others prefer a specific cal for a specific job

 

If its size that matters then go .308 and if you want to shoot lower cal you can use .223 sabbots!

 

Spike

[kent]

.204 is another good cal. Fast, very flat better BC than 22-250 and 243, low recoil low powder consuption for reloads.

But can be a nightmare finding the right factory ammo and load development i a long winded process for first time shooters. Also getting hold of a .204 rifle is a nightmare. (ok theres plenty on guntrader howa, the odd browning) you try getting a new sako 85 in .204. 6 month wait from GMK

 

I love posts like these because everyone has thier personal favourite cal and defend it to the hilt!

thing is everyone is right! everyones different and all reqirements are different.

 

some people like one rifle to do it all others prefer a specific cal for a specific job

 

If its size that matters then go .308 and if you want to shoot lower cal you can use .223 sabbots!

 

Spike

 

When we talk of one calbre having a better BC we have to be carefull on two counts. one you have to compare apples with apples cant put a .20 varmint bullet against a VLD 6mm etc. its not always possible to do this cross calibre comparisom. secondly and this is the most relivent of all for the higher bc to realy count we need to stretch the range beyond its normal limits, say 300 yds and over now how many foxes do we actually shoot at those ranges.

[kent]

take the filter off and use a dimmer

 

however they do run away from you on occasions and stop when they think they are safe, occasionally I have a shot at reasonable range but it will be pretty much off bags on the pickup roof so pretty much bench rest shooting. I'd not have a hornet simply due to the margin for error factor and if I'm using a centrefire I want a certain punch behind it. If I want safety in a difficult to shoot area I use the HMR

 

the hornet packs near on three times the punch of the hmr you are quite happy to use, exactly how much margin for error do you want? You wanna be seriously carefull using the HMR "for safety in a difficult to shoot area", totally agree it is less likely to bounce but it definatly can do and go a heck of a long way to boot i know of no shot i would personally take with the hmr that i wouldn't with something bigger and more suited to the foxing job (ok perhaps close range destuction) but no shot in the field for me personally that just a bit too close to the edge. Early days i certainly believed all the hype surounding the hmr but although it has its uses the single word "unpredictable" sums it up in most repects

Edited April 16, 2011 by kent

[Spike Reeve]

When we talk of one calbre having a better BC we have to be carefull on two counts. one you have to compare apples with apples cant put a .20 varmint bullet against a VLD 6mm etc. its not always possible to do this cross calibre comparisom. secondly and this is the most relivent of all for the higher bc to realy count we need to stretch the range beyond its normal limits, say 300 yds and over now how many foxes do we actually shoot at those ranges.

 

Thats a valid point regarding the BC impossible to compare .204 to say .243 and long range shots are not really the norm.

 

looking at it from a fox only calibre. Shooting 300 yards and under, which has the faster flight speed,less drop, and bucks the wind better?

 

The main point i was trying to make was that this was a recomendation for a fox calibre. Some people were streering towards a higher calibre for fox and deer which is ok if you have open condition and or have land cleared for .243 as well as having deer on your ticket.

All of which the original poster had not as it was his first centre fire.

of course there is no right or wrong calibre for this argument which is why its such a good post.

 

Regards

Spike

[The Duncan]

The .223 seems to have a good following and the 22 250 has its own grass-roots support too.

Other than fox, what are you .223 shooters shooting? How versatile is the calibre?

 

Ps - goddamn typos!

 

PPs - really gratifying to see such healthy and indeed, respectful, debate on the PW

Edited April 16, 2011 by The Duncan

[kent]

Thats a valid point regarding the BC impossible to compare .204 to say .243 and long range shots are not really the norm.

 

looking at it from a fox only calibre. Shooting 300 yards and under, which has the faster flight speed,less drop, and bucks the wind better?

 

The main point i was trying to make was that this was a recomendation for a fox calibre. Some people were streering towards a higher calibre for fox and deer which is ok if you have open condition and or have land cleared for .243 as well as having deer on your ticket.

All of which the original poster had not as it was his first centre fire.

of course there is no right or wrong calibre for this argument which is why its such a good post.

 

Regards

Spike

 

yes we must be carefull we don't drift into maths too far you just can't compare cross calibre sub 300 no matter if you use bc, drop, speed, drift etc.as desiding factors, even over 300 its hard again apples with oranges territory. As a first cal for fox alone using factory ammo i supose it has to be .223 rem to my mind if he never wishes to shoot deer (some forces will grant .243 for fox alone) and it comes down to this it will do the job up to 300 yds which the hornet won't, it burns out barrels slower than any of the wizzier stuff that only come into thier own at longer ranges and most important of all you will never struggle to buy suitable ammo for it. Not too long ago this debate would have mentioned the .22 swift but try getting ammo for it today

[wymberley]

Just a thought.

The consensus of opinion is that you can't compare "apples with pears". Makes sense.

However, the one thing that bullets have in common is energy albeit to differing degrees. We all know that you can kill a fox with a head shot at 50yds (86 ft/lbs) using a sub LR: Similarly, a decent WMR round will achieve the same result with a shot to the engine room at 120yds (160 ft/lbs). These figures can be compared.

The LR shooter is happy to judge a 1/2" wind drift and therefore in a 10 mph wind is maximum range falls to 35yds: Whereas the WMR guy is happy with 2" so his maximum range falls to 65yds. That is the basics.

At the sort of ranges as above, the energy figures given are fine but at extended distances where, hopefully, chest shots are the norm, it is necessary to allow for a level of inaccuracy and in that event ensure that the fox is hit with sufficient energy to compensate.

Consequently, it is pointless comparing one calibre with another when we should be comparing energy.(Calibre only comes into it if you know the weight of the rifle and you are going to throw it at the fox.) Furthermore, even this comparison is pointless if there's not a known or accepted minimum energy level requirement to kill.

It would seem, therefore, that after four pages of interesting debate, it remains the case that everyone's opinion is valid and suits their own needs. I have a figure in mind for a minimum energy requirement; as there's always tomorrow I stay indoors or the pub if the wind is over 10 mph and I have acceptable (to me) figures for drop and wind with which I'm happy. It is this that defines my maximum range and I fully appreciate that someone else with identical kit may be able to extend that considerably.

 

 

Edit: Spelling

Edited April 17, 2011 by wymberley

[Mr_Logic]

This thread seems to be digressing a bit, but for the purposes of comparison apples to apples between 204 and 243, i.e. each set up with its very finest long range fox load, let's examine...

 

204 - 39gr Blitzking is about .270 at normal 204 velocities, absolute max is .287. Typical velocity 3700fps, maybe 3800fps at a push from a normal sporter barrel.

 

243 - 55gr Nosler is .276, typical velocity 3900fps.

 

Ballistically, 243 wins by a mile so no point worrying about BC etc. However, the 204 does have stuff going for it, namely the lack of recoil. OTOH, it's also more of a fiddle to load as most of the tools are 22 or more cal, and 20 cal is too damn small. Unless I'm shooting long range, then I will take a 223, safe in the knowledge that foxes up to and including 300 yards at night are in trouble, and if I get the jump on one in the daytime at 400 yards, he better watch it! 243 makes life easier at those ranges for sure however.