Semi views

[Schmoo]

Hi I am in a position to invest in a semi-auto up to about the £350 mark.

Don't mind if it is 2nd hand.

More interested in something which will work with 21g - 36g loads ( the Mrs can have a go with it ) but would normally be 28g-36g loads, pref multi choke.

Question is what would be a good one to consider and what would one to avoid like the plague ?

Thanks Schmoo.

[sitsinhedges]

Save a bit more and buy a nice used Beretta 391 for £5-600

[Albert 888]

I bought a second hand webley and scott 810 for wildfowling last year its been great no problems or jamms.ive put 2 1/2" 28grams

2 3/4" 32grams and 3"36grams through it no bother at all.and its sythetic stock so wash it in the sink then dry and lube all the parts.It also has low recoil compared to my 425.

[poorpeet]

Right then. There are two basic opinions here. (a) Quality second hand (B) Cheap new.

I went for a Hatsan as I could get a proper LH one cheaply. To be honest I wanted to see how I got on with a semi (Oh,er) and I fully expected, having read all the bad press, to have problems and planned, if I liked a semi auto, to sell it on and buy somthing better. However, the gun has been fault less and has cycled everything inc 65mm/21grm Hull Comp X's without any issues. So I've kept it. The same is true of the other Hatsan owners I've met and chatted to.

The real clincher for me is that for your money you will be able to get a new one with a 3 year warranty.

I like Beretta's but you would be at the bottom of the barrel for that money and, at the risk of upsetting Beretta owners I've seen more of them having problems with their guns than I have with Hatsan owners.

[Albert 888]

sorry forgot to mention it cost me £250 with gunslip chokes and instructions.

[coneyhunter]

Fabarm also do excellent semi autos, if you can find one the eurolion is good, i had one for quite a while and then stupidly sold it to fund another gun, they cycle light loads as well with ou issue.

 

i also had a webley 812 and was not impressed, it used to jam with a number of different shells and i found the unloading process awkward

[sitsinhedges]

Right then. There are two basic opinions here. (a) Quality second hand (B) Cheap new.

I went for a Hatsan as I could get a proper LH one cheaply. To be honest I wanted to see how I got on with a semi (Oh,er) and I fully expected, having read all the bad press, to have problems and planned, if I liked a semi auto, to sell it on and buy somthing better. However, the gun has been fault less and has cycled everything inc 65mm/21grm Hull Comp X's without any issues. So I've kept it. The same is true of the other Hatsan owners I've met and chatted to.

The real clincher for me is that for your money you will be able to get a new one with a 3 year warranty.

I like Beretta's but you would be at the bottom of the barrel for that money and, at the risk of upsetting Beretta owners I've seen more of them having problems with their guns than I have with Hatsan owners.

 

 

I've heard it all now

 

[Simon123]

I would also say, go for a Hatsan escort magnum, they really are great guns especially for the price and especially as long as you get one of the newer version's of one. I know people on the internet mock them, but they really are great guns (if you look after it, but this is true for any gun) and at a very reasonable price. My mate has a 5 shot and it's truly incredible (especially for the price). He put's heavy magnums through his mostly and he's never had a stoppage, he's put quite a few game cartridges through it as well also without any stoppages, and it's the same story on the clay cart's as well, and the most incredible thing is he only paid £350 for it brand new with 3 years warranty. After having a go on his 5 shot this made me want to own a semi, and he had a 3 shot Escort for sale for £200, and after a box or two of cart's through it to test it i bought it and it's still working like a dream. So the Escort is really worth considering as for the money you save (£200 - £300) you could buy a big bulk of cart's with the money which you saved.

Another mate bought a Browning Maxus about a year ago for about £1000, and what a great and comfortable gun, but as he seen and used the escort 5 shot of his/my mate he totally regretted the purchase that the had made, as both of the guns were being used for hunting and rough shooting, so obviously both would get marked and scratched, but the way he and us all seen it he would have been better off on getting a Escort as the money he would have saved would have been a very nice bulk and we don't see the Maxus performing any better than the Escort in the kind of shooting that they do.

 

P.S. I'm not saying that the Browning Maxus is'nt a good gun, it actually is great and i loved it but is way too expensive for the kind of shooting i do.

Just dont want Hatsan hater's/Browning lovers to start a debade

Edited April 27, 2011 by Simon123

[Schmoo]

[/b]

 

 

I've heard it all now

 

What quote do I need to dismiss sitsinhedges ?

Do you have any advice for me ?

Thanks Schmoo

[sitsinhedges]

What quote do I need to dismiss sitsinhedges ?

Do you have any advice for me ?

Thanks Schmoo

 

I was just laughing at the notion that Beretta's are as problematic as Hatsans.

 

I do actually like Hatsans and have owned 3 but they all caused me problems with build quality and reliability.

 

I did shoot well with them though so maybe if you get a good one but my last new one was back at the shop within a week for a refund due to a high % of jams from the start.

 

I've probably put 5000 rounds thru my 391 and it just works every single time with any cartridge.

[Schmoo]

I was just laughing at the notion that Beretta's are as problematic as Hatsans.

 

I do actually like Hatsans and have owned 3 but they all caused me problems with build quality and reliability.

 

I did shoot well with them though so maybe if you get a good one but my last new one was back at the shop within a week for a refund due to a high % of jams from the start.

 

I've probably put 5000 rounds thru my 391 and it just works every single time with any cartridge.

If I was to go the 391 route, are there anythings I should watch out for or check ?

Are there older models or versions of the 391 that are not as good ?

[sitsinhedges]

If I was to go the 391 route, are there anythings I should watch out for or check ?

Are there older models or versions of the 391 that are not as good ?

 

 

If I was going to buy any auto from a stranger I would pretty much insist on trying it at a clayground unless it was a very good price. You should buy the version that suits the type of shooting you intend to do. I bought a 10yrs old 20g 391 Teknys that I doubt had more than a few hundred thru it, they are out there. My 12g 391 is the Urika Light model, I don't like walking miles with heavy guns myself but it's still up to the job of claybashing at least once a week too.

[Schmoo]

If I was going to buy any auto from a stranger I would pretty much insist on trying it at a clayground unless it was a very good price. You should buy the version that suits the type of shooting you intend to do. I bought a 10yrs old 20g 391 Teknys that I doubt had more than a few hundred thru it, they are out there. My 12g 391 is the Urika Light model, I don't like walking miles with heavy guns myself but it's still up to the job of claybashing at least once a week too.

I just need a cheap reliableish semi auto for popping pigeons and walked up whatever happens to be around.

I have a lovely Browning 325 MC 30" grade 2, bloodly lovely gun got it second hand, 1 owner and looked as if it had never seen the light of day for a right steel, just too nice a gun to take into the field everytime, want and old workhorse for me and so the Mrs can have a go on it too busting clays.

[sitsinhedges]

I just need a cheap reliableish semi auto for popping pigeons and walked up whatever happens to be around.

I have a lovely Browning 325 MC 30" grade 2, bloodly lovely gun got it second hand, 1 owner and looked as if it had never seen the light of day for a right steel, just too nice a gun to take into the field everytime, want and old workhorse for me and so the Mrs can have a go on it too busting clays.

 

I think that buying a S/H Hatsan is a very risky, unlike Beretta's the g'tee isn't transferable and you might get a pig in a poke

 

I sold one on here honestly as a going concern for something like £100 because it didn't work well, other people may not be so honest and charge much more for a P.O.S.

[MK38]

The only two people i know with escorts have had no trouble from them, and i've watched them shoot many rounds of clays without a hitch.... however the guns suffer from severe build quality issues in general, get a good one and your laughing ..... a bad one is nothing but trouble.... though i'm sure that proper care and cleaning have a large bearing on the matter.

 

My choice would be an old Beretta semi... 301,302, 303, 390 or 391....

most will not have been shot excessively and parts can be easily obtained...

A search on the US shotgun forum would solve most problems that you are likely to have.

I used to have a 303 sporter and it never failed to fire,eject or load after many thousands of rounds... i really regret selling it now.

 

Dave

[Schmoo]

The only two people i know with escorts have had no trouble from them, and i've watched them shoot many rounds of clays without a hitch.... however the guns suffer from severe build quality issues in general, get a good one and your laughing ..... a bad one is nothing but trouble.... though i'm sure that proper care and cleaning have a large bearing on the matter.

 

My choice would be an old Beretta semi... 301,302, 303, 390 or 391....

most will not have been shot excessively and parts can be easily obtained...

A search on the US shotgun forum would solve most problems that you are likely to have.

I used to have a 303 sporter and it never failed to fire,eject or load after many thousands of rounds... i really regret selling it now.

 

Dave

Cheers for your reply Dave.

What is the difference between all those models you listes, I presume a 302 is better than a 301 etc ?

Do the 301 and 302 have an external choke ?

Would £275 be an average price for a 301, that appears to look in pretty good nick ?

Do these semis kick a little less than my Browning B325 o/u would if you used the same load in both, the Mrs likes to have a pop at the old clays from time to time, ans I presume they will cycle 21g upwards no problem ?

Would a Remmy or Winch semi be a good bet as well either a 1100 or 11-87 or are these old old technology.

Cheers Schmoo

[poorpeet]

Just to be clear. I'm not saying that Beretta's are worse than Hatsan's. Clearly they are not. Just that in my, very limited, experience I have seen more people having issues with them that I have with Hatsans.

The point I was trying to make was that Hatsans are not as bad as some would have you believe and, for the money, I'd go for a new gun with a 3 year warranty rather than a second hand one.

If you want to look at second hand take a look at the Franchi 712 Raptor. Light enough to carry all day, unlike a Hatsan, and beautifully built using a mix of Beretta and Benelli tech but much cheaper second hand.

[MK38]

Just to be clear. I'm not saying that Beretta's are worse than Hatsan's. Clearly they are not. Just that in my, very limited, experience I have seen more people having issues with them that I have with Hatsans.

The point I was trying to make was that Hatsans are not as bad as some would have you believe and, for the money, I'd go for a new gun with a 3 year warranty rather than a second hand one.

If you want to look at second hand take a look at the Franchi 712 Raptor. Light enough to carry all day, unlike a Hatsan, and beautifully built using a mix of Beretta and Benelli tech but much cheaper second hand.

 

It's all mostly down to hear say i think.... if it wasn't for you and Andy having good reliable guns i too would be saying 'steer clear of Hatsans' after reading so many negative reports.

The first auto i ever fired was a new Franchi in the mid 60's .... we thought the gun was fantasic.... even if it was basicaly just a single shot ! ... the owner carried a screwdriver with him to hook out stuck shells.

I bought my Beretta 303 on the strength of a friend owning a 301 that never missed a beat.... had i heard bad things about them i wouldn't have bought mine.

I'm sure that most guns ( if properly made with good parts ) will perform well if maintained , but only if the build quality is there in the first place . Most faults can be sorted with carefull assembly and cartridge choice.

I still rather have an old proven gun than a new one that may have problems in quality.... but thats just me

 

Dave

[Simon123]

Just to be clear. I'm not saying that Beretta's are worse than Hatsan's. Clearly they are not. Just that in my, very limited, experience I have seen more people having issues with them that I have with Hatsans.

The point I was trying to make was that Hatsans are not as bad as some would have you believe and, for the money, I'd go for a new gun with a 3 year warranty rather than a second hand one.

If you want to look at second hand take a look at the Franchi 712 Raptor. Light enough to carry all day, unlike a Hatsan, and beautifully built using a mix of Beretta and Benelli tech but much cheaper second hand.

 

Franchi 712 Raptor's are beautiful, reliable and very light guns, most probably the one of the lightest semi auto on the market toaday. And because they have the insides of Beretta's and Benelli's they will definitely be a great gun. But saying this they are out of your budget, as a tidy S/H one will be about £600, but that's if you can find one for that price, and as their such a good gun you don't see that many tidy S/H examples for sale. I know of a Franchi 712,(not a raptor) for sale in a very tidy condition and in perfect working order for £425, HERE'S A LINK

 

But Escort's aren't that heavy. I can easily carry mine all day long. I know there are much lighter guns to be bought but the Escort isn't exactly heavy, is it. ;)

 

Anyway it help to get bigger arms :lol: , How do you think my arms are so big :lol:

 

The beretta 303 is also a good gun, and will be very reliable and light, and a perfect pigeon and clay gun, and there are plenty of them to be found for a decent price, i've seen one cycling 24g cart's no problem but i don't think the owner ever tried 21g carts. ;)

Beretta A390 or AL390 is also a good reliable gun but would be heavier then the 303, and they can be found for decent money and look absolutely stunning.

 

You say you want to cycle 21g cart's which is going to be a challenge to find as many semi auto's don't cycle them, but as semi auto's don't have much recoil, so 28g cart's should be fine for your wife, if not try some 24g cart's which you'll find that alot more semi's can actually cycle them ;) . When i'm using my semi (hatsan escort) with some 32g cart's i dont feel hardly any recoil.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Simon123

[poorpeet]

I'm such a wimp!

[MK38]

Cheers for your reply Dave.

What is the difference between all those models you listes, I presume a 302 is better than a 301 etc ?

Do the 301 and 302 have an external choke ?

Would £275 be an average price for a 301, that appears to look in pretty good nick ?

Do these semis kick a little less than my Browning B325 o/u would if you used the same load in both, the Mrs likes to have a pop at the old clays from time to time, ans I presume they will cycle 21g upwards no problem ?

Would a Remmy or Winch semi be a good bet as well either a 1100 or 11-87 or are these old old technology.

Cheers Schmoo

 

I am by no means an expert on the subject , so please don't take my word as gospel !

 

All the early 300 series were basicaly simmilar with just slight improvements/style changes being made.

The internals of the early 300's were copied into some Breda and Browning models such as the Browning B80 and barrels and some parts interchange.

The 301,302,303 series dont have the gas compensation valve of the later 390 391 models.

The early guns should handle 28gm loads well enough if 2 3/4" chambered, though 21gm may be asking to much. 3" chambered guns will struggle with less than 32 gm loads.

Recoil is a hard one, i would say the recoil from a gas semi would be light, though your wife might not.

You have to remember that when these guns were first made 32gm and upwards were the common shot load.... though my 303 cycled 28gm Impax no problem.

 

301 & 302 were both made with either fixed choke or external thread multichoke.

 

1100's have been around for years and still made, i have never used one though a mate had one and loved it.... parts and seconhand selection should be good as loads of these are for sale.

 

The only Winchester i have heard about was the 1400 model which was designed as a cheap gun to compete with the growing number of cheaper imports at the time, and as such the quality suffered.

Best advice i can give is to go and look at some in the flesh, handle and if possible shoot it... it's the only way to be certain if the gun is for you and your Wife.

 

To get a better idea of potential problems and some fixes have a good read of this site particualy the makes section... loads of info

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/index.php

 

Take your time looking and try to see as many as you can....

 

Dave

[Peppergun]

I have a 391 in the family and it is a lovely gun, provides all you asked for. As with anything you set a price and always end up spending more. I am a big fan of Browning and Beretta and wouldn't buy anything else, even if you use a gun in the field doesn't mean it will be ruined unless you are banging fence posts in with it. Buy cheap, buy twice especially a semi. Just my two bob.

[buchangun]

I,ve got a remington 1100 , good buid quallity , built like a tank and never misses a beat .

 

You get plenty of good second hand one for the money you are talking about .

 

They make hatsans look like 'toy guns' when you compare them side by side!

[Simon123]

They make hatsans look like 'toy guns' when you compare them side by side!

 

:hmm: :hmm: , NO :P :P

 

My dad's mate has one and, it is'nt really a good gun, the gun jams much more often than my Hatsan as well as my three other friends ones as well. My dad's mate also said i wouldn't advise anyone to touch one even though they can be found with a low price tag

Edited May 2, 2011 by Simon123

[Schmoo]

What about a Benelli Montefeltro, 26" multi choke, it is an older model in 12g. I cant find many reviews on the web, didnt know if you guys or gals had heard anything about them.

Thank for all your replies to date, it is appreciated, thank you to those of you who have taken your time and effort to help me out.

Thank again Schmoo.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Schmoo