Lab training update

[margun]

Hi all,

 

My black lab bitch is 8.5 months old now and has been coming along very well with obedience and although I've really not pushed things very hard she seems eager to learn.

 

At 12 weeks I started getting her to sit before her dinner and before going for a wee but no more, and in the last few weeks I've upped the obedience quite a bit and been introducing

walking to heel on the lead and recall work. She sits to hand signals and recalls/sits to whistle which I'm chuffed about, but I expect to have to keep on top of this progress as the 'terrible teens'

strikes.

 

I've not introduced gunfire yet but have been clattering and making noise when she eats. As far as retrieving goes, I've not done much apart from occasionally throwing a stuffed sock or soft toy

in the garden for her which she retrieves keenly.

 

However when she picks up the thrown object she always runs back towards me then drops it 5 feet or so before getting to me.

 

Am I doing too much too soon or should I start working on this dropping? If so do you have any suggestions for correcting this?

 

Many thanks, margun

[Fatcatsplat]

Crouch down and open your arms wide to give her a target to hit - Either that or run backwards when she's coming in to encourage her into you

[margun]

I've tried that already but she still drops the toy/dummy in front of me. I havn't had a strategy for introducing the retrieving on the basis that it should be instinctive?

She uses her nose when looking for the retrieve (although she sometimes doesn't go out far enough and misses it).

[kent]

still a bit young for all this, but try a very light easy carried object like a notted hankey- you don't say what the pups getting though i suspect it might take some effort and any effort is a bad thing. i should wait another three months or so before you get into anything much more than sit on basic comand comming when called and lead work personally

[jmooney]

Try doing the retrieving with the socks in the hallway inside. That way she has no choice but to run right to you. Or with some temporary fencing you can setup up a narrow run closed at one end and you stay at the open end and again she has no where to run with it except right to you. Try sitting on the floor when you do this as well this way you are at her level and she's less likely to be intimidated coming to you.

[cracker]

My black lab bitch is 8.5 months old now...

still a bit young for all this,

 

Beg pardon!?!

 

For basic retrieving, for sitting on command, for (yes) hand signals - too young?

 

Not a'tall.

 

As for not introducing to gunfire (yet), making noise and banging pans together when a pup's eating is a real waste of energy.

 

The foolproof introduction to the gun is to have a helper go out a fair distance - probably 50 yards, maybe 75 - and toss a dummy, shooting a blank pistol "at" the dummy while it's in the air. The pup almost instantly makes the association that shot is a good thing - it comes simultaneously when a dummy is thrown, and on top of that, it's already watching the dummy sail through the air when the trigger's pulled. Thus focused more on the retrieve than what's made the retrieve possible, i.e., the gun. And that's as it should be, and is, whence in the field.

 

Getting the dog to hold a dummy for delivery to hand, instead of dropping it a distance away, you're on your own. But there are some tips that most NTTF has covered above if you choose to follow them.

 

MG

Edited May 3, 2011 by cracker

[Donnie]

I found with mine although only 5 months when he brings his puppy dummy back he used to spit out the dummy if you were giving him treats when he retrieved so that he could get hold of the treat quicker. Now when mine drops the dummy I turn walk away and tell him to find it, when he comes back to me with it I keep saying hold, hold, hold then dead when I take it from him. Then and only then he gets a treat, which we are currently weening him off. If he drops the dummy at any point it all starts again and I have found saying dead when I take the dummy helps. From what I have read remember to only let her retrieve a small amount of dummies you throw, collect the majority your self.

[kent]

Sorry misread it i took it the dog was 12 weeks old still as you mentioned what you did with it then- not 8 1/2 months

[margun]

Haha no kent she's 8 1/2 months at the moment

 

Donnie - I don't use treats with her so not sure where this spitting the retrieve has come from.

 

Think I'll try sitting down as jmooney suggested doing some play retrieves and give her a treat if she delivers to hand before progressing to standing and walking away. If this method doesnt work

then I'll get back on here!!

 

Thanks for the responses and I'll keep you updated!!

[One man and his lab]

I've experienced the same problem with my lab bitch who is now 2 years old and a fine working dog. I don't know about you but i'm quite a big guy and therefore quite intimidating to a dog, also I was told by my professional trainer to do a number of things that have previously mentioned. The thing that worked for me was to go to one knee and say nothing to the dog untill she came to the front of me with the dummy, then make a big fuss of the dog and don't worry about the dummy at all. If she dropped it i placed it back in her mouth and lifted the dummy up to raise the dogs head saying dead and taking the dummy. This takes time but it has worked for me, I also wore sunglasses as I was so focused upon the dummy that I was making the dog nervous. Hope this helps as much as it has me.

 

I recommend two books PRA Moxom gundogs training and field trials, and Lez Graham The pet gundog.

 

Happy Training

[WGD]

Too many consecutive retrieves CAN, if a good delivery is not insisted upon, lead to the dog spitting in anticipation of being sent for the next retrieve straight away.

[margun]

@ WGD:

 

I suppose I have let her have most of the (few) retrieves that I've thrown for her in the garden. I've bought a couple of dummies now for training use only, which I'll try tonight.

How would you insist upon a good delivery from her if she carries on spitting the dummies?

 

I've been told that forcing the dog to hold dummy and saying 'hold' is bad?

[WGD]

It depends on whether the dog completely loses interest in the dummy or not.

 

If the dog will spit the dummy but go back and pick it up if asked, I wouldn't give any praise or look as if I am going to take the dummy from the dog until it went back to where it spat the dummy, picked it up and brought it in and delivered it properly (whether this is standing, sitting in front or sitting to the side is all up to you). By properly I mean holding the dummy until you take it. Sometimes just a simple step back from where the dog has spat the dummy can work, but not if the dog has lost interest the dummy it has just dumped.

 

If the dog will not go back to the dummy, you can put the dummy back in the pups mouth so it knows what is expected. That's a risky business as timing is everything and done incorrectly can seriously confuse the dog.

 

What you need to do is get the dog used to being praised for holding the dummy. I helped out with one spaniel pup that would spit the dummy every time, I got her sorted by keeping moving when she came back with the retrieve rather than staying still where she could drop the dummy in front of me. Once she got confident walking along beside me holding the dummy I would stop for a second or two then move off again before she dumped the dummy. Just built from there until she was delivering properly.

 

Be patient, it can take a while to sort out but don't let spitting the dummy become learned and acceptable behaviour.

[mpk]

Crouch down and open your arms wide to give her a target to hit - Either that or run backwards when she's coming in to encourage her into you

 

That's exactly what I was going to say

[gedney]

That's exactly what I was going to say

Try putting her on the lead ,and walking to heel give her the dummy to carry with the word hold,let her walk a few yards ,praise her then take the dummy,keep repeating the command,, hold as she takes the dummy ,if she drops it give it back to her and move off again,works for me.

[cracker]

I've been told that forcing the dog to hold dummy and saying 'hold' is bad?

 

And why oh why would that be?

 

The secret is getting the dog to understand what "hold" means whilst it is already holding - and doing so in an unthreatening, unintimidating manner.

 

In other words, beginning the little chant of "Hold. Hold. Hold" when the dog's en route back to you with the dummy. Then you take the dummy from the dog whilst showering it with a great deal of praise.

 

The bended-knee business is permissible, but can become a bigtime crutch. And the dog may spit the dummy if there's engrained anticipation of getting to go for the next retrieve but guess what? Not always, not even occasionally if you get the hold down. Mine go for three, four in a row and each in sequence and at v. long distances - they are going to give up the first retrieve only when I command them to,

 

 

and not before. (The command is "Drop!" or "Out!" by the way - and eventually it goes away in favour of the dog seeing your hand go below a bird indicating that it's to be given up.)

 

MG

Edited May 9, 2011 by cracker

[damo789]

Hi all,

 

My black lab bitch is 8.5 months old now and has been coming along very well with obedience and although I've really not pushed things very hard she seems eager to learn.

 

At 12 weeks I started getting her to sit before her dinner and before going for a wee but no more, and in the last few weeks I've upped the obedience quite a bit and been introducing

walking to heel on the lead and recall work. She sits to hand signals and recalls/sits to whistle which I'm chuffed about, but I expect to have to keep on top of this progress as the 'terrible teens'

strikes.

 

I've not introduced gunfire yet but have been clattering and making noise when she eats. As far as retrieving goes, I've not done much apart from occasionally throwing a stuffed sock or soft toy

in the garden for her which she retrieves keenly.

 

However when she picks up the thrown object she always runs back towards me then drops it 5 feet or so before getting to me.

 

Am I doing too much too soon or should I start working on this dropping? If so do you have any suggestions for correcting this?

 

Many thanks, margun

[damo789]

i would use a long lead and make her come back then give her a fuss

cheers damo

[margun]

to cracker:

 

I've tried several suggestions given here and none seem to be working. Her enthusiam for going for a retrieve isn't a problem and I'm not letting her go for every one (maybe one in four).

The difficulty I'm having is that I'm unable to reward her for holding the dummy or issue praise as she is consistently dropping it before she gets to me. I think there's an element of anticipation for the next retrieve. It's my fault as she has always had plenty of soft toys around (the missus insists on having them around for her dog - impossible to keep them seperate) and the few throws I did for her earlier on she was allowed all of them I'm inexperienced with gundog training but I think she might have grown complacent with objects/toys to carry around.

 

I can get her to go back to the spat dummy by saying "pick it up", but she just starts playing/shaking the dummy. I've tried to make her hold it by offering it to her but she doesn't want to know and I don't want to force her and come off as aggressive.

 

She often carries things around (especially when I come home) so could I capitalise on this by chanting 'hold hold hold' and rewarding her with a treat? I always praise her for carrying things anyway....

[cracker]

She often carries things around (especially when I come home) so could I capitalise on this by chanting 'hold hold hold' and rewarding her with a treat? I always praise her for carrying things anyway....

 

Yes to "Hold...hold...hold," whatever and whenever the pup's carrying something.

No to treating for it. Take the object away and praise for the pup both for holding the dummy (or object) and for giving it up.

 

Also be aware that you don't have a retrieving problem, you've got an obedience problem - and there's a big difference. The recall - including coming in with and delivering the dummy - is purely obedience.

 

I'm a tad unorthodox on how I teach the recall. As the dog's already retrieving (and with enthusiasm in running out and picking a dummy), I separate the recall as an obedience exercise. I will use a check cord and as soon as a dog's got its mouth around the dummy, reel it in whilst blowing the come-in whistle (three pips in my parts)and after every sequence, verbally commanding "Here...here..here."

 

Note that I said "as soon as the dog's got its mouth around the dummy" - not that it's retrieving the dummy. The dog may not have a good grip on the dummy and get reeled in ahead of getting it back in its mouth. It may drop the dummy en route back from the pulling on the check cord. But what it's learning is that the recall's imperative.

 

And that in turn conveys to the dog that it get back as fast as possible, and that often (almost always) overrides the dog's "fumbling" a dummy or spitting it when it gets near you.

 

Understand that the check cord is also "forcing" of a kind. But with a few repetitions a day over the course of a week, the return becomes engrained and it often (almost always) clears up any dropping of dummies or hesitant, stopping short recalls.

 

As they get older, you can even do away with the whistle command - once they've got something in their mouth, they know

its intended destination.

 

MG