Zero Problems

[ellebarto]

I think I have some kind of problem with my Ruger .22 setup. Its a 2nd hand gun that has a target barrel. Ive put on a Nikko STerling scope and zeroed it at 25 yards and it gives me an under 1" group as you would expect. I take it out into the field and go straight out to 75 yards (my ideal vermin range) and I seem to be all over the place. I know it coul dbe lots of things but just wondered if any of the old hands can tell me the sequence they would logically check? I havent ruled out that the barrel isn't fitted correctly and it needs to go back. Just strange its fine at 25 yards!

 

Remove and refit scope and rail making sure all is tight, rezero at 25 yards and this time perhaps at 25 first before pushing out to 75. Anything else?

[stevethevanman]

Its not going to be the stock or anything because .22LR recoil is so light.

 

Chances are its also not scope rings ect, as again, the recoil is so light.

 

As for it being fine at 25yds, it "appears" to be fine, there has been no time for the bullets to diverge, so the problem is only apparent at 75yds, but it is still there at 25yds, you just cant tell because its so close to the muzzle.

 

Check the scope and double check the rings ect... If everything including the scope itself on your optics seems to be good then look at the stock. If it was removed by the previous owner there is a small chance it is sitting funny or something.

 

Try a different brand of ammo? Most common ones are: Winny subs, Eley Subs

 

Steve

[Redgum]

if your shooting at 75yds then zero at 75yds and the odds are the problem is ammo, try a few differant brands. .22lr barrels last for ever so unless its been abused then its unlikely to be that.

[bongo321]

Its not going to be the stock or anything because .22LR recoil is so light.

 

Chances are its also not scope rings ect, as again, the recoil is so light.

 

As for it being fine at 25yds, it "appears" to be fine, there has been no time for the bullets to diverge, so the problem is only apparent at 75yds, but it is still there at 25yds, you just cant tell because its so close to the muzzle.

 

Check the scope and double check the rings ect... If everything including the scope itself on your optics seems to be good then look at the stock. If it was removed by the previous owner there is a small chance it is sitting funny or something.

 

Try a different brand of ammo? Most common ones are: Winny subs, Eley Subs

 

Steve

why would the stock make any difference ,if the scope is inline with the barrel as it should, you could tie the action to a plank surely ? I would guess the scope is out of true with the barrel

Edited May 7, 2011 by bongo321

[Dekers]

why would the stock make any difference ,if the scope is inline with the barrel as it should, you could tie the action to a plank surely ? I would guess the scope is out of true with the barrel

 

 

If it was tied solidly to a plank it would probably be ok, the problem is if it Bounces/touches the stock it can mess with the barrel harmonics and send the bullet all over the place, but assuming we are talking about a .22lr here then this is not usually too much of an issue.

 

Not the best plan just the same!

[Dekers]

Just check everything is tight and make sure the barrel and crown are clean and undamaged.

 

With all due respect at 25 yards you should be putting them in the same hole, a 1" group is not great at all.

 

Try different ammo.

 

This was somewhat unusual but pleasing just the same.... 60 yards with Magtech .22lr 40g HP, 3 shots.

[lineshooter]

Nice Group Dekkers, I have a 10/22 with the standard barrel and I get groups like yours at 25 metres, shooting on our clubs indoor range with CCI Minimags.

 

I`m well impressed at the results for a standard barrel, it took a lot of different ammo testing to get there though.

[Gimlet]

I think I have some kind of problem with my Ruger .22 setup. Its a 2nd hand gun that has a target barrel. Ive put on a Nikko STerling scope and zeroed it at 25 yards and it gives me an under 1" group as you would expect. I take it out into the field and go straight out to 75 yards (my ideal vermin range) and I seem to be all over the place. I know it coul dbe lots of things but just wondered if any of the old hands can tell me the sequence they would logically check? I havent ruled out that the barrel isn't fitted correctly and it needs to go back. Just strange its fine at 25 yards!

 

Remove and refit scope and rail making sure all is tight, rezero at 25 yards and this time perhaps at 25 first before pushing out to 75. Anything else?

 

I'm afraid stock movement does matter even with subsonic .22 rounds and is one of the most common causes of poor shot consistancy. A misaligned scope would send your POI wildly off-aim but should not affect group size and you have checked your scope mountings for play. Finding the right ammunition markedly improves performance at normal shooting ranges, but any reputable brand should at least be keyholing at 25 yards. You don't say whether the rifle has a moderator fitted; if it has take it off and try without it. The rounds may be clipping it. Also check the condition of the crown, that is the profile of the barrel at the muzzle. Heavier calibres burn out the crown causing flaring of the bore and wrecking the harmonics. Your .22 dosen't generate enough heat or pressure to do this, but a scratch or gouge from former mistreatment could be affecting the bullet on exit. Check with a magnifying glass but if you suspect a problem take it to a gunsmith, don't go shoving emery cloth or anything into the bore.

I suspect your most likely problem is stock creep- the action moving in the stock. Particularly if your stock is natural wood. Laminate and synthetic stocks or less prone to this but they're not immune. Most mass-produced wooden stocked rifles which aren't pillar mounted or free-floating (which with rimfires is almost all of them) suffer stock movement eventually. Wood is a highly mobile material. It can't maintain the same tight tolerances as steel and eventually the mating surface between the stock and the action deteriorate and the action starts to move around in the stock. When you fire a shot the pressure of your finger on the triger and the recoil, even the tiny bounce of a .22lr, cause the action to shift in the stock, changing the point of aim from the one you thought you were holding prior to releasing the shot. You will never detect this movement in the scope, but you'll see it when you check the target, and the amount of movement it takes to ruin a shot is tiny. 1 thou at the trgger becomes 3.5 inches at 100 yards. The use of a bipod both hastens this condition and exagerates the affect by creating a fulcrum where all weight and movement is concentrated, and usually at the furthest and thinest part of the forend. Put the rifle in a proper gun vice, and see if you can detect even the slightest movement by applying pressure to the barrel. If you can don't just tighten the stock screws but take the stock off and clean all surfaces. Wipe off any beads of oil that have collected along the bed where the barrel sits and remove all traces of grit dust or fluff. Screw the stock back on firmly but don't go mad. If you hear a crack you've wrecked your stock. Check for movement again. If you detect any the stock needs bedding by a professional gunsmith- not merely a gun shop.

This could be why your second-hand rifle was up for sale in the first place. But if you like the gun and it is in otherwise good condition don't give up on it. A good .22 rimfire lasts a lifetime if cared for, and Rugers are decent rimfires. Rebedding is a small cost for a gun with such a potentially long lifespan.

[ellebarto]

Fantastic reply mate. Thanks

 

It's a particularly nice Ruger with a rubber hogue stock and I did wander why someone would have traded it in.

 

Will go through the steps you described an failing that back to the shop

[Dekers]

Nice Group Dekkers, I have a 10/22 with the standard barrel and I get groups like yours at 25 metres, shooting on our clubs indoor range with CCI Minimags.

 

I`m well impressed at the results for a standard barrel, it took a lot of different ammo testing to get there though.

 

 

Cheers, but as I said, that is unfortunately not the norm, nice when it happens just the same, this is a more typical group, same ammo, 60 yards. (after making slight scope adjustment)

 

Simply an illustration for the thread that .22lr should be pretty accurate, certainly out to 60-70 yards or so, although many chose to zero around 50!

 

After checking everything you can on the gun, then ammo choice can make a lot of difference!

Edited May 8, 2011 by Dekers

[scarecrow243]

the 10/22 ruger has 2 allen screws that hold the barrel tight take the stock off and check them as some do come loose

[Gimlet]

Fantastic reply mate. Thanks

 

It's a particularly nice Ruger with a rubber hogue stock and I did wander why someone would have traded it in.

 

Will go through the steps you described an failing that back to the shop

 

No problem. Hope it helps. Interesting you say the rifle has a Hogue stock. The Hogue stocks fitted to Howa centrefires can be notoriously bouncy, to the point where using a Harris style stock-mounted bipod is out of the question. Put me off buying one. Are you zeroing off a bipod mounted on the forend? If so take the bipod off and try with a bean bag under the barrel. If that's the answer you can have the Hogue stiffened with a stainless rod or there are some very nice laminate stocks available for Rugers, which are naturally more rigid. Don't think this can't affect a soft shooting .22lr. You wouldn't try to zero a rifle that was resting on a tree branch that was swaying in the wind, but that's what's happening when you have a bipod on a bendy stock.

I've got the same problem with my Weihrauch HW60s- skinny schnabel forends and Harris bipods. Not a good combination.

[Bowen20]

give it a good clean and take the moderator off if your using one and zero it in at 75 yards with it off and see if there is any difference it could be a loose of faulty baffle inside that the bullets are clipping and causing the bullets to stray off allover the place.

[ellebarto]

I've tried a combination of the bipod and a bean bag an now you say it, it was better without the bipod!

 

Another thing to investigate. Live the hogue stock but not st the expense of accurate shooting!

[Gimlet]

I've tried a combination of the bipod and a bean bag an now you say it, it was better without the bipod!

 

Another thing to investigate. Live the hogue stock but not st the expense of accurate shooting!

 

Now you've identified the bipod issue go through the sequence again without it. Clean the gun and re-zero. Remove the moddy to see if thats a problem. Then start trying different ammo brands. Before you go from one brand to another run a bore snake through the barrel, and shoot at least half a dozen groups with each brand. If you like the Hogue stock investigate the cost of stiffening it. It may be no dearer than a new stock which, who knows, might develope the same problem.

With all this test firing be thankful its only a .22lr and not something like .416 Rigby. they're £14 a bang!