hammerofthor Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I've had several air pistols and rifles growing up and when I was grown up. Also been in the TA and really enjoyed the shooting. Got rid of the air rifles when the first born got to the ' what happens if I push this' stage. Ten years later and he's interested in guns, he has a few BB guns and this year we bought a PCP air rifle for pigeon and rabbit shooting. We also joined the local rifle club where we have been using the air rifle and the club .22 and shotgun. ( not always available ). I would now like to buy my own rimfire and possibly a shotgun. I have pretty much decided to get a gun cabinet up in the loft and I'm going to see the local landowner about using a shotgun and rimfire on his land, I already have permission for the air rifle. It's now just the sequence of events that's a wee bit confusing. I can only make it to the club every other weekend so haven't had a good sit down and chat but gather that I can apply for a FAC after 6 months. Q1 Can I only then use any rifle at the club ? Q2 Do I have to apply for a SGC separately ? Q3 Should I get permission from the landowner before doing anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbuster Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I've had several air pistols and rifles growing up and when I was grown up. Also been in the TA and really enjoyed the shooting. Got rid of the air rifles when the first born got to the ' what happens if I push this' stage. Ten years later and he's interested in guns, he has a few BB guns and this year we bought a PCP air rifle for pigeon and rabbit shooting. We also joined the local rifle club where we have been using the air rifle and the club .22 and shotgun. ( not always available ). I would now like to buy my own rimfire and possibly a shotgun. I have pretty much decided to get a gun cabinet up in the loft and I'm going to see the local landowner about using a shotgun and rimfire on his land, I already have permission for the air rifle. It's now just the sequence of events that's a wee bit confusing. I can only make it to the club every other weekend so haven't had a good sit down and chat but gather that I can apply for a FAC after 6 months. Q1 Can I only then use any rifle at the club ? Q2 Do I have to apply for a SGC separately ? Q3 Should I get permission from the landowner before doing anything. First thing to do is get the relevant application forms from your police station, you will need both sgc and fac forms. If you have a need for fac (e.g. vermin control at said land) you should be granted your fac for rimfire depending on how much land it covers (you will obviously need permission of landowner). On the application form you need to declare where you intend to use the firearm, in your case you would declare on above said land and your local rifle club. You will need to apply for the sgc on a separate application-its a bit easier applying for sgc as you dont need to declare where you'll be using it. You can submit both applications at the same time-called 'counterminious' (spelling?) which will cost you less. Get the forms first and have a good read through them-this will give you a better idea of what you need to do. If the landowner doesnt give permission, you can still use the rimmie at the club while you search for another landowner that may require your services. Hope this helps-i'm sure someone else will be along soon and point out anything i've missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 basically, you can apply for a fac without having any land/permission to shoot on, by doing it through the rifle club, downside is, you normally have to wait a period of membership (you quote 6 months) and of course you'll only be able to use it at the rifle club so its far better to do it yourself, ask the farmer if you can have shotgun and rimfire permission (in writing) if he says yes, get your forms filled in and sent off he (the farmer) may say yes to shotgun and no to rimfire?, depending on his and your circumstances, untill then its no point us answering anything else, go ask the farmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerofthor Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 If the landowner doesnt give permission, you can still use the rimmie at the club while you search for another landowner that may require your services. Thanks for the input. I texted the landowner today as I don't like bothering him with a call, he usually phones back but he hasn't this time. If i can't use the rimfire on his land but later find somewhere else, I suspect you have to have this verified and added to your form somehow ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerofthor Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 ask the farmer if you can have shotgun and rimfire permission (in writing) if he says yes, get your forms filled in and sent off OK, had a long chat with farmer today and we both agreed there was no problem with the shotgun, but nobody uses a rimfire on his land so it's not been checked for suitability. He himself was thinking about getting a rimfire but just went with the air rifle and shotgun ! So shotgun it is for now and I'll just wait until my six months are up at the club before deciding whether to go for the rimfire. If I win the lottery in the meantime, I will reconsider my options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerofthor Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 OK, the form. When I was a teenager I was fined £40 after a fracas at a party. Can't remember the date or what the charge was so don't know what to write. Also the countersignatory, is a teacher OK ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbuster Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 OK, the form. When I was a teenager I was fined £40 after a fracas at a party. Can't remember the date or what the charge was so don't know what to write. Also the countersignatory, is a teacher OK ? I too had something similar, i went to the local police station and they checked on the database and told me there and then. I dont think they can do this anymore-you have to pay a fee now to get a police check on you, again go to the local station and they'll tell you how to go about getting the check done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbuster Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Oh, and yeah-teacher will be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 OK, the form. When I was a teenager I was fined £40 after a fracas at a party. Can't remember the date or what the charge was so don't know what to write. Also the countersignatory, is a teacher OK ? Be honest with the fine, give the details you can remember - don't worry, they'll supply the missing ones! If it was a few years ago and you've been a good lad since, it will probably be OK, though it may be mentioned at interview. Teacher is fine as a countersignatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 OK, had a long chat with farmer today and we both agreed there was no problem with the shotgun, but nobody uses a rimfire on his land so it's not been checked for suitability. He himself was thinking about getting a rimfire but just went with the air rifle and shotgun ! why not ask him, if even though the land is not checked, if he would give you permission, and be your 2nd contersignator on your FAC ticket, I got my FAC via shooting permission on a fishery, 8 acres of land, 7 acres of that being water, so his farm need'nt be huge, my permission was not walked either by the FAO, just googled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerofthor Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Have now had a chance to speak to the club secretary who told me to apply now, so I'm going to apply for both together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
here iam Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Have now had a chance to speak to the club secretary who told me to apply now, so I'm going to apply for both together. Yes best to apply for them both together first all its cheaper and 2nd they both start and finish at the same time Your references shotgun ,head teacher , doctor , some one of good standing then another shotgun older who has Known you for at least 2 years Fac 2 good referances from people who have KNOWN you for at Least 2 years also fac holders what their looking at is your experiance where you going to use them that your not a syco i joined a club to get experiance of rimfire , and centre Fire you can apply for Fac after 16 visits done not less than 3 months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Yes best to apply for them both together first all its cheaper and 2nd they both start and finish at the same time Your references shotgun ,head teacher , doctor , some one of good standing then another shotgun holder who has Known you for at least 2 years Fac 2 good referances from people who have KNOWN you for at Least 2 years also fac holders what their looking at is your experiance where you going to use them that your not a syco i joined a club to get experiance of rimfire , and centre Fire you can apply for Fac after 16 visits done not less than 3 months All good advice apart from there is no need to get people with sgc/fac to be you referee's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Also many FEO's aren't keen of cabinets in lofts. If your going FAC and SGC then you need a cabinet with a second locking compartment or a small safe and get a 5 gun or larger and make sure your PCP is stored correctly if you have under 18's in the house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerofthor Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Also many FEO's aren't keen of cabinets in lofts. If your going FAC and SGC then you need a cabinet with a second locking compartment or a small safe and get a 5 gun or larger and make sure your PCP is stored correctly if you have under 18's in the house I was told that cabinets in lofts/cellars are best as any intruder/potential gun thief probably wouldn't even look in the loft. I have the with the locking box at the top, the PCP is already inside. I have several years experience with a wide range of firearms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 I was told that cabinets in lofts/cellars are best as any intruder/potential gun thief probably wouldn't even look in the loft. I have the with the locking box at the top, the PCP is already inside. I have several years experience with a wide range of firearms. Some FEOs are fine with cabinets in the loft, but some aren't. They take the view that because it's a hassle to climb up there, you might not be bothered with it at the end of a long day shooting and might therefore be tempted not to secure them properly overnight. Another consideration in lofts is damp/condensation damaging your guns. There are ways around this, silica gel, VP90 or small bulb to heat the cabinet but it's worth thinking about before you go down that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Problem is 2 fold H&S stops some FEO going into lofts to inspect cabinet and if its difficult to get into the loft, people can be tempted not to put them away after shooting. The cabinet should be out of site of casual visitors and not visible from any ground floor windows doors etc. 2.1 The security of firearms, section 1 ammunition and shotguns within a dwelling can in most cases be achieved using a cabinet designed for this purpose. New cabinets should conform to the requirements of BS7558 (see Annex C for examples on points of construction). The cabinet should be fixed to the structure and located to frustrate attack or identification by persons visiting the premises 2.4 Security should not be located so inaccessibly as to deter the certificate holder from securing his or her guns after use. You can read the home office guidelines on the subject http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/police/operational-policing/firearms-handbook-2005/firearms-security-handbook?view=Binary Also hot in summer cold in winter lofts aren't a great place to store guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
here iam Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 All good advice apart from there is no need to get people with sgc/fac to be you referee's. Thats depends on which force and feo you are dealing with I was told this is a definate advantage because it shows you have been round people with plenty of experiance using guns you have now to stack all the odds in your favour i also had to provide another two names has referees on top of my written down ones for my Fac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerofthor Posted May 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Quote 2.1 The security of firearms, section 1 ammunition and shotguns within a dwelling can in most cases be achieved using a cabinet designed for this purpose. New cabinets should conform to the requirements of BS7558 (see Annex C for examples on points of construction). The cabinet should be fixed to the structure and located to frustrate attack or identification by persons visiting the premises I'm going to have to rely on 2.1, as the cabinet went up the loft on Saturday ! Since I'm north of Inverness we have cold in winter, slightly less cold in summer I will however look into limiting condensation, good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Quote 2.1 The security of firearms, section 1 ammunition and shotguns within a dwelling can in most cases be achieved using a cabinet designed for this purpose. New cabinets should conform to the requirements of BS7558 (see Annex C for examples on points of construction). The cabinet should be fixed to the structure and located to frustrate attack or identification by persons visiting the premises I'm going to have to rely on 2.1, as the cabinet went up the loft on Saturday ! Since I'm north of Inverness we have cold in winter, slightly less cold in summer I will however look into limiting condensation, good point. If you dont have a proper loft and lighting up there I would suggest you fit them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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