claybreaker88 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Hi simple question when out shooting pigeons over rape do you need to take your cert with you or can you leave this at home with the wife. Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 (edited) Hi simple question when out shooting pigeons over rape do you need to take your cert with you or can you leave this at home with the wife. Paul. there is no legal requirement to carry it. but i do carry mine. Edited April 3, 2006 by markbivvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topmantim Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 I just take a photo copy of mine. just in case anybody want to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 You have to carry your FAC with you, if not the police have the power to confiscate your rifle's until you show it. And yes it depends on how clued up PC plod is. So is it the same with SGC :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 You have to carry your FAC with you so when your ticket is in for a variation you cant go shooting.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Just proves the law is an *** :( But if you were stopped by Plod and you didn't have your FAC, there is nothing you can do to stop them taking your rifles :( The law is so backwards, but it's OK for the crims to waltz around with Pistol's and Fully automatic machine guns :< About time they looked at things and put them in Order, them higher up have no common sense not a gram :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 As the question has been quite adequately answered I don't mind sidetracking this topic. By the way I also advocate Topmantims reply. kip270, I absolutely agree that, at times, the law is an ***. But you seem to be confusing the law with law enforcement. Your latest reply is a contradiction. You appear to take exception to the Police being able to seize your weapons, presumably if you can't prove legal ownership because you haven't got your certificates on you ? But you expect them to take the illegal guns off criminals. :o One rule for yourself and not for others :(? As a retired Police Officer I definitely know it is not "OK for the crims etc etc." I consider that remark to be a very illinformed statement. Just out of interest any Bobby now has access to the radio/computers/data banks of firearms and a simple radio call, with your gun make and serial number, would confirm your legitimate ownership. So I think we can say things have been put in order ? While I am on my high horse, why do some people on here refer to Police officers ( who I know are not all perfect !!!) as PC Plod. To me this comes across as a very derogatory phrase . I would be interested in your opinions on the last comment. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 While I am on my high horse, why do some people on here refer to Police officers ( who I know are not all perfect !!!) as PC Plod. To me this comes across as a very derogatory phrase . I would be interested in your opinions on the last comment. :( I am with you one this one, it gets on my t*ts for some reason I can't explain (sorry Nick :o ) I have banged on it about before, my FEO's are top men and both shooters so they are OK by me :( And back on topic, I always take a copy of my FAC with me when I have the rifle but never take my SGC anywhere with me - unless I intend to by some cartridges... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 just one point please, if the police have.( access to the radio/computers/data banks of firearms and a simple radio call, with your gun make and serial number, would confirm your legitimate ownership.) why would they want to do this. ( the Police being able to seize your weapons, presumably if you can't prove legal ownership because you haven't got your certificates on you ?) one more point. ( I just take a photo copy of mine) surely this copy could have been made the week before the fac was revoked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 (edited) >why do some people on here refer to Police officers ( who I know are not all perfect !!!) as PC Plod Because before you retired being a Police Officer was probably seen as more of an honourable role than it is now. In my view now people view police officers as concealed tax collectors. I caught 2 mins of a police documentary tonight, some police woman saying to the camera words to the effect of: "it has been a good night, we have had 3 statutory fines and 3 speeding fines which are more money. we have got lots of money in tonight" I think that is half the reason for public feeling. I realise it is probably target driven and not the personal police officers fault but I think there is a big problem with the police tackling "minor/easy" law breakers than taking on the big/dangerous criminals <EDIT> My fac and sgc come everywhere with me whever I have the guns or not. You never know where you are going to see cheap guns/cartridges and for the sake of having it in my inside coat pocket I am hopefully never going to get into a position where I have my guns and not the certificates. I dont see the point in taking a photocopy with you instead of the real thing, why not take the real thing? Sure you could lose it but as has been pointed out a photocopy is so easy to doctor I doubt a police officer would view it with any high regard. </EDIT> Edited April 3, 2006 by rarms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 mark, Glad to have your response. I thought my comments would provoke some debate. I'm not sure I understood your question. If the police find a weapon isn't on their database etc. surely they should be able to seize an illegal weapon ? They would also be able to check that you are a legitimate gun owner and possibly take a less robust course of action. I don't want to lose my certificates, so I don't carry them with me. I also don't want them to get into the wrong hands. I accept your point about a revocation, however this is extremely unlikely. But I feel that a photocopy goes some way to proving my legitimate ownership. rarms, Don't get me on about traffic. I never did anyone for speeding as I knew I would be a hypocrit !! :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 I carry my SGC with me all the time I am in possession of a shotgun. My jackets have zippered inside pockets, so its quite safe and its not heavy. :o Why make life difficult for yourself, is one of my mottos. With regard to the, sometimes less than polite, reference to Police Officers on here, I think we mostly take as we find. Apart from one bad experience with a civilian FO (who has since been moved), I have never had any problems with the Police, mainly because I have never given them any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 (edited) I don't want to lose my certificates, so I don't carry them with me. I also don't want them to get into the wrong hands. I accept your point about a revocation, however this is extremely unlikely. But I feel that a photocopy goes some way to proving my legitimate ownership. Some forces will not accept photo copies :( The law is open to each forces interpretation, so Gwent police will not have the same views as West Lothian police, as i have experienced. As for PC plod there are too many years gone by for the name to change.. It could of been worse... But as i said in my previous post it depends on how clued up the PC is who stops you. I got stopped by Traffic patrol in Gwent. Upon getting out of my vehicle to meet the officer, i informed him that i was going lamping and that i had firearms in my vehicle. He then noticed that i had a lock knife on my belt, and questioned me about it. I removed the knife which is under 3inch, and he said it was agaisnt the law to carry such an item :( Ummm don't think so.... :( Also had a good reason to be carrying such an item. And he didn't even ask about my firearms :( So that go's to show how clued up some are :o ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- kip270, I absolutely agree that, at times, the law is an ***. But you seem to be confusing the law with law enforcement. Your latest reply is a contradiction. You appear to take exception to the Police being able to seize your weapons, presumably if you can't prove legal ownership because you haven't got your certificates on you ? But you expect them to take the illegal guns off criminals. One rule for yourself and not for others :blink:? Nope that's not what i said. Just stating that your rifles can be seized until you can show your FAC. Edited April 3, 2006 by kip270 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 hi Sniper. by all means possible i think unlicensed guns should be off the streets.but if the police know that my guns are legit, why if iam doing nothing wrong would they want to take them. ( You appear to take exception to the Police being able to seize your weapons, presumably if you can't prove legal ownership because you haven't got your certificates on you) it was this bit that interested me, the police have immediate access to the firearms department. and know straight away if the chap they are speaking to is a fac,sgc holder. when they punch your reg number into the pnc it comes up straight away if you are permit holder. so i think them wanting to take guns of you just for not having your permit with you is nothing more than bully tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 intresting topic this, staying out of the legal side of it. i do reffer to policemen or even civi's like the FLO's as plod's, its just a term i use, not sure why :o just one of those names which everyone recognises, (bench rest shooters are 'paper punchers' i'm sure there are pleanty of other examples... just not going to try and think of any... too late :( ) im sure you all realise i would never mean it as a derogatory term, just a term ive come to use. back on topic briefly... i always have my tickets with me when i go out, i normally dont carry them, but leave them in the car (or with my stuff at the farm house), if a policeman decided to have my guns taken away whilst they checked i was who i was, i would kick up such a stink its unreal. I have heard so many horror stories about people having their guns taken in a sack with them all banging together. Not my idea of a good days shooting :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 kip, You've disappointed me. I expected a much more livelier debate from yourself about me saying you were contradicting yourself . But if you choose not to answer my points so be it. By the way I was called a lot of far worse names over the years, and got paid for it. I'm a big enough lad to be able to look after myself. :o mark, We are at cross purposes . I didn't say that they should be taken from you if you are not doing anything wrong. If they have established you are legitimate why should they ? That was the point I was trying to get over to kip270. In theory the Police still have the power to seize weapons from people if they are unsure of ownership. But they have immediate access to fireams databases and should be able to resolve any circumstances , nowadays, merley by talking to you or PNC'ing you. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 We are at cross purposes sorry mate i think we are. If they have established you are legitimate why should they ? thats what i asked the last lot of armed police that turned out to see us. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 nick, I am old school...you are a lot younger than me. The words may change but the derogatory inferrence does not. A word of advice..............Don't call a policeman PC Plod to his face :o If you leave it in the car, what happens if the car gets stolen ? Like I said to mark, why would a policeman take your guns from you , if they can now check instantly if you are a gun owner and the gun is yours ? :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Please see my previous post to this :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Cranfield, Thanks for your response. The more this is discussed the more thought I am giving your comment about always carrying the certificates. To throw something else into the discussion, the certificates are such an awkward size to carry ! :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 kip, As far as I recall there is no distinction between either certificate. Both refer to firearms as classsified under the Firearms Act 1968 and can be seized, if necessary. A thought has occured to me though, is Scottish law different ? :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 (edited) Cranfield, Thanks for your response. The more this is discussed the more thought I am giving your comment about always carrying the certificates. To throw something else into the discussion, the certificates are such an awkward size to carry ! :( I find that when they are in my zipped jacket pocket, and with the terrain i shoot over you work up a sweat, they get damp :o Maybe something of Credit card size, that cannot be forged just to state you have legal firearms?:( Edited April 3, 2006 by kip270 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 No scottish law is the same, as regarding Firearms/Shotguns. Maybe they have more training in firearms law, due to the high numbers of Shooters that visit scotland from abroad/England/Ireland/Wales (have i left anyone out :o ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 kip, I've just looked at my old copy of the Firearms Act 1968. Section 47 relates to stop and search procedures for Police. Section 48 relates to production of relevant certificates. Both sections specifically include shotguns. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 kip, I've just looked at my old copy of the Firearms Act 1968. Section 47 relates to stop and search procedures for Police. Section 48 relates to production of relevant certificates. Both sections specifically include shotguns. :( So we should carry either cert depending on what we are shooting with :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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