MM Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 MM thoughts are with you and your family, MM - my sympathy to you and your family. thanks dudes. im feeling really **** at the state of the world, but what can you do? spent this afternoon on the phone making more funeral arrangements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 How can it be legal? Its called the Liverpool Care Pathway and its the closest thing the UK has to legal Euthanasia, very hard to watch if youre not regularly exposed to it. Ultimately its for the best, sometimes............its takes too long.........I wouldnt let a dog suffer for as long though, My thoughts are with you Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 I'm really sorry to hear that MM. Baz - I'm honestly OK mate, it's the people staying by her side that are causing me the most concern. Three of them have been ever present, with just very brief refresh breaks, for over 72 hours now. Every hour that passes gets them all more and more concerned about stepping away, even momentarily, for fear of not being there for the final moment. I went up there last night with a view to try to reason with them but in the event didn't bother. This is not a dignified death by any stretch of the imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) This is not a dignified death by any stretch of the imagination. Not at all The reality is that the minute they do step away she will expire, seen it so many times Sorry mm< I missed your post I was pi ssed after my adam ant gig....sorry to hear that mate. Edited June 23, 2011 by Evil Elvis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 We could discuss this for months but at the end of the line who would perform the deed? I think thats the crux of the matter, are you and angel of mercy or an executuioner? We used to knowingly perform euthanasia as nurses but theres no way that can happen anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 The danger is that should it become legal it will become practiced as a way of clearing difficult lingering patients out of beds. It probably is now truth be told. Not for humanitarian reasons but purely for economic expedience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 It probably is now truth be told. Never!!! To aid a peaceful and dignified end, but never for a bed, thats preposterous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Never!!! To aid a peaceful and dignified end, but never for a bed, thats preposterous Can you really say never? If the NHS had an endless supply of beds and resources would things be different? If it was in a private hospital where people were paying would they be so quick to discuss these options? I dn't know, I don't work in your job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 I can categorically say NEVER. Once the Liverpool end of life pathway is invoked it can and does take days to die, not really helping in a bed crisis. In the "old days" nurses used to administer diamorphine every 2-4 hours whether the patient was in pain or not knowing that the build up of morphine would help them on thier way, many times I delivered the final dose and the patient passed within minutes, it was a "standard" practice. These days after beverly allet and Harold Shipman you wouldnt dare do something like that for fear of being labeled as a murder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I can categorically say NEVER. Once the Liverpool end of life pathway is invoked it can and does take days to die, not really helping in a bed crisis. In the "old days" nurses used to administer diamorphine every 2-4 hours whether the patient was in pain or not knowing that the build up of morphine would help them on thier way, many times I delivered the final dose and the patient passed within minutes, it was a "standard" practice. These days after beverly allet and Harold Shipman you wouldnt dare do something like that for fear of being labeled as a murder! fully understand what you are saying Baz, and appreciate people who do your job. I did consider breaking the morphine box open, and pushing the plunger myself. The staff were amazing and showed more than profesional care, and you can see how much it gets to them not being able to help as much as they would like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonk69 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 guys i feel for anyone in this situation, we lost my 18 yr old brother to a virus some ten years ago, he went from a 15 stone sport mad teenager to just over 4 stone when he died, this virus took six months to kill him, we also took the decision to stop feed and hydration due to him being totally non responsive,we had to wait 3 days for him to pass away,although we took the decision to stop feeding i still think it was the best way, although my brother could still breath for himself there was nothing else,when food and hydration is stoped the person does not starve to death like an animal like some have said(please remember chaps these were /are peoples families) genarally they are unaware of hunger or thirst as the body and brain are not fully functional, we made the decision as a family the only trouble with the injection route is some one would have to sign that piece of paper, which i know could cause a what if situation with other family members, im not saying its wrong but sometimes as we all know its better to let nature take its own course, cheers matt ps, luv ya kit, always have always will, bruv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) I can categorically say NEVER. Once the Liverpool end of life pathway is invoked it can and does take days to die, not really helping in a bed crisis. In the "old days" nurses used to administer diamorphine every 2-4 hours whether the patient was in pain or not knowing that the build up of morphine would help them on thier way, many times I delivered the final dose and the patient passed within minutes, it was a "standard" practice. These days after beverly allet and Harold Shipman you wouldnt dare do something like that for fear of being labeled as a murder! I would echo this completely. I was a nurse for over 30 years and although I saw this done and, like Elvis, was on occasions the nurse who administered the final dose of Morphine, NEVER was the issue decided with any reference to bed pressure, it was a decision made purely between Medics, Nurses and family, with the final decision usually unsaid but acknowledged, before the Liverpool pathway was developed. Any pressure from management etc regarding bed pressure would have been told to **** right off, the ONLY consideration was (and I am sure still is) the Patient and I have to say that the distress and suffering was always lessened. Don't believe the **** from the rags like the Daily Mule etc. Edited June 24, 2011 by Bloke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Yes but then you have to look at the case of my great uncle. He didn't have a terminal diagnosis. He never had cancer, except for a small bit of skin cancer removed from his face. He was walking down to get his newspaper every day before he went into hospital. OK he was 90 with all the stuff that brings but he wasn't even diabetic. Then he got a chest infection which he couldn't shake off with oral antibiotics but even then he didn't have an ambulance to take him in. My mother drove him in and he walked to the admissions. Two days later they were saying they were stopping his treatment and three/four days later he was gone. I have to wonder now whether he really got the best of care. This was Northwick Park, not a hospital with a glowing reputation. The more I think about it now the more doubts form in my mind. Maybe they found things once he was in there but if so it was not communicated to us. Edited June 24, 2011 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 But you cant say he was euthanised??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) No of course you can't and I am not suggesting he was. But was he left to his fate? Negligence can amount to the same thing if the outcome could have been different. What was the basis of their decision to withhold treatment? Its all very much how you see it. With some IV antibiotic would he have got it cleared up and gained another few years? we will never know now. Edited June 24, 2011 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 With some IV antibiotic would he have got it cleared up and gained another few years? we will never know now. Obviously i dont know the case but Know that if iv antibiotics would have cured him then thats what he would have got, unless he had multiple co-morbidities(which it sounds like he didnt) then it doesnt make sense that they would not treat him........unless it was his wish.........i can understand why you are upset and fail to see why they didnt treat him seems very odd..................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) And what about the various stories of people who have found that they have had "Do not resusitate" added to their notes with neither consultation or approval? I know you have read these stories in the press because you must have, we all have, is the NHS operating to a hidden agenda? Edited June 25, 2011 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 I cant comment as i dont read newspapers and no longer work for the NHS. But the nhs decided today that my wifes Nan was not for resus today in the absence of any NOK!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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