RFDNET

[al4x]

Surely, IF, on inspection at the buyers nominated RFD something was found to be wrong or the buyer unhappy with, the gun would still have to be picked up ? So it would seem of little consequence wether it's collected from an RFD or a private individual ?

 

 

Simply the answer to your original question is the finances didn't add up to do the end deliveryvia an rfd face to face.the sale or return bit with money held is fine but remember someone has to pay for the return so you could find you have to pay to get a gun back whether it wasn't liked or damaged in transit.

New guns obviously have a higher profit margin on to allow face to face delivery plus buying a new gun online and being delivered to your local rfd who has the same gun in stock just more expensive would cause a lot of bad will and put most off receiving.

It has its uses this set up and saves one end of fees as long as you remember the gun can still come back and the fEes are like pay pal

[Cranfield]

I see the major benefit with this system is that the funds are held in escrow by a secure party.

There are quite a few scams about at the moment where a Buyer sends funds, but doesn't receive the gun.

Also, no Seller wants to send a gun "on approval" and then hope the Seller sends the money.

 

I recently paid in advance for a secondhand 12gauge O/U by Bank Transfer, including both ends RFD payments.

There was a few days break down in communications when I wondered if I had been scammed, but the Seller had been away.

The gun was finally despatched.

 

When the gun reached my RFD it was not in the condition I expected.

It had severe surface rusting on the barrels, broken butt plate, no end sight and some marking on the stock.

 

If I had returned it I would have had to pay the costs, which I was prepared to do.

Then I considered that I would probably have aggro in getting my purchase money back.

I decided to tidy up parts of the gun myself and get the rest fixed by my friendly RFD/Gunsmith.

 

This was the first gun I have ever bought unseen and I vowed it would be the last.

 

However, with this escrow system, I would have the confidence in knowing I wasn't being scammed, The Seller is unlikely to "talk up" the gun as it might be returned and if it doesn't fit the description I can return it at minimal cost.

 

That sounds like a fair deal to me.

[RFDNET]

This is how I understand it also.Have done this several times;Avalon for example,and as TaxiDriver says,the only difference I can see is as he also said;'holding the money in trust'.Or have I got it wrong?Not picking holes,just want to understand the procedure and how it stands against those already i place.

Hi, sorry for delayed response. You are correct in that we do hold funds in trust (escrow) for both buyer and sellers protection. This also allows buyers to pay with any credit or debit card which is typically not possible with a normal private to private transaction.

 

The other difference is WE (through Parcelforce) will collect the gun from the sellers home/office. Saving visit to local RFD and local RFD cost to Seller. Buyer's end looks similar, save that it is just so much easier to sort the money side of things.

 

Nothing complex of course.

[RFDNET]

Surely, IF, on inspection at the buyers nominated RFD something was found to be wrong or the buyer unhappy with, the gun would still have to be picked up ? So it would seem of little consequence wether it's collected from an RFD or a private individual ?

 

Well, you might suspect so, but the reality is we loose visibility to the dispute first hand and the cost to deliver to a private buyer is much higher (see our RFD service and the cost we charge for dleivering firearms/shotguns direct to private buyers is IRO £45 for this very reason)...this cant be done for £14.95 plus VAT, particularly as it can't be done by a courier (whether TNT; Parcelforce or whomever) but has to be via a RFD or his servant. We could do it but just the cost increases...would you guys be happy wiht that sort of service instead, as it's all very possible to do?

[al4x]

Nice one nogbad, couldn't be further from the truth we do mostly sameday and International with overnights being a small part of the business. But the one that causes the most agro and thats without dealing in firearms as we specifically exclude them and that won't be changing.

It does give an insight to costs and thats why the initial business plan was interesting and confusing to see how it would add up. Obviously it didn't hence all the changes that have gone on but it is opening new avenues of business like fister above, small RFD's who don't meet the volume requirements to have accounts with TNT and parcelforce can access good rates through them.

[RFDNET]

Lee

 

I think you have definitely scored a home run give this wee snippet from one of Alex's earlier posts.

 

 

 

A large splash of the old green eyed envy. IMO

 

Well, who knows...his various other comments whilst inquisitive have been more derogatory - but its a free world I guess. I'll continue answering constructive questions as best I can for now. Kindest.

[RFDNET]

All i will say is this. As a journalist RFD, RFD-net have so far been the only courier to satisfy my needs and up to now, have done exactly as promised, to the exact timescales promised. I hope to continue using them and that all remains the same.

 

We'll try our best - glad to see you received good service as you expected - thanks for feedback. Kindest, Lee.

[RFDNET]

I see the major benefit with this system is that the funds are held in escrow by a secure party.

There are quite a few scams about at the moment where a Buyer sends funds, but doesn't receive the gun.

Also, no Seller wants to send a gun "on approval" and then hope the Seller sends the money.

 

I recently paid in advance for a secondhand 12gauge O/U by Bank Transfer, including both ends RFD payments.

There was a few days break down in communications when I wondered if I had been scammed, but the Seller had been away.

The gun was finally despatched.

 

When the gun reached my RFD it was not in the condition I expected.

It had severe surface rusting on the barrels, broken butt plate, no end sight and some marking on the stock.

 

If I had returned it I would have had to pay the costs, which I was prepared to do.

Then I considered that I would probably have aggro in getting my purchase money back.

I decided to tidy up parts of the gun myself and get the rest fixed by my friendly RFD/Gunsmith.

 

This was the first gun I have ever bought unseen and I vowed it would be the last.

 

However, with this escrow system, I would have the confidence in knowing I wasn't being scammed, The Seller is unlikely to "talk up" the gun as it might be returned and if it doesn't fit the description I can return it at minimal cost.

 

That sounds like a fair deal to me.

 

This is precisely what our service helps avoid. Its not just about delivery and collection alone. Ultimately, it will probably weed-out the scammers who wont have anything to gain in using our service. So you haev to ask yourselves, if you the Seller wont accept payment securely via RFD-NET what are they hiding?

 

If there is enough demand, we have no problem in extending service door to door - as we do this already when we sell guns, which has it's othe robviouds benefits as we can deal with the finance paperwork if the buyer is buying the gun on finance.

 

It is also perhaps worth boting that we are considering offering a deferred or finance option for private buyers to buy a gun privately, but do it in finance. RFD-NET pays the Seller as usual, but the Buyer can gain 12 months credit. The finance fee (upfront) is likely to be 10%, which represented as a typical APR is 21.8%. This is not definate, but as we're all talking openly, welcome feedback - good, bad or otherwise Gents!

 

Kindest.

[HDAV]

Lee do you have an arrangement with the "local" RFD's or are they free to charge what they like for writing an item onto a ticket? It's the vast difference in cost that gets me some want £25-£45 to send VIA TNT etc (ok i accept they need to make a profit the TNT/courier fees they are charged, VAT etc) but some charge just as much to sign for a box and write it on your ticket. Does or will RFD-Net standardise charges? if the item is rejected as not being as described etc (are the specific terms for rejection?) who bears the return costs and makes arrangements?

 

Almost every gun will get couriered at some point and i don't see "lost in post" in the official crime statistics so using large couriers who have specific procedures for carrying firearms isnt a concern. What is how do we know ABC gun smihts are happy to take the delivery? wont charge an arm and a leg for it? Will deal with the return when it goes tats up!

 

Do you/your agent check paperwork when receiving the item (i.e. it is legally held?) http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/Jailed-gun-collector-tougher-laws/story-12969842-detail/story.html

[RFDNET]

Lee do you have an arrangement with the "local" RFD's or are they free to charge what they like for writing an item onto a ticket? It's the vast difference in cost that gets me some want £25-£45 to send VIA TNT etc (ok i accept they need to make a profit the TNT/courier fees they are charged, VAT etc) but some charge just as much to sign for a box and write it on your ticket. Does or will RFD-Net standardise charges? if the item is rejected as not being as described etc (are the specific terms for rejection?) who bears the return costs and makes arrangements?

 

Almost every gun will get couriered at some point and i don't see "lost in post" in the official crime statistics so using large couriers who have specific procedures for carrying firearms isnt a concern. What is how do we know ABC gun smihts are happy to take the delivery? wont charge an arm and a leg for it? Will deal with the return when it goes tats up!

 

Do you/your agent check paperwork when receiving the item (i.e. it is legally held?) http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/Jailed-gun-collector-tougher-laws/story-12969842-detail/story.html

Hi,

 

Well, its freedom of the Buyers choice. The typical fee we see if £25 to do the Buyers side. Clearly RFD's can charge what they feel is appropriate, but I suspect those that charge excessively might risk losing customers.

Whilst we don’t get involved, we do have relationships with a good number of RFD’s across the UK, NI and IOM, and we could add a preferred ‘Buyers RFD’ service if we chose to and I suspect the charge would be in region of £15 to £25 based upon what they have offered us. We are also keen to see a local RFD remaining in the loop as I have already said – to assist in Buyer disputes and collections back from them – but it also keeps business flowing around the RFD community of which we are part. Not to say we couldn’t do both ends completely in house – which we could if demand was there (and do all paperwork/certificate endorsing ourselves). That’s down to demand, as we could also bring out ammunition and cartridges at our visit...which is under review also.

 

Thoughts on that?

[HDAV]

It seems to be of benefit on a side not if the purchased item was from a private individual (no warranty) and financed through RFD-NET would RFD-Net then be liable for a warranty under the CCA?

 

Having a list of RFD's that will accept the delivery deal with releasing it for a known fee and then offer a seemless returns procedure in the event of an issue would be beneficial after all pretty much any RFD should be able to arrange collection of a firearm from another RFD through the various RFD-RFD schemes in place (be it yours or the GTA one etc)

 

RFD's have a legal protection to exist which 99% of other retailers don't, if boots can deliver your prescription then i dont see why you can't have a shotgun or rifle delivered (with appropriate safe guards) I believe there is a method where you can send your cert to supplying RFD and have cert returned once item is written on it then the item shipped direct, wonder why it has taken so long for someone to figure it out?

[Nogbad]

couldn't be further from the truth

 

Oh,I believe you Alex.

[Nogbad]

Well, who knows...his various other comments whilst inquisitive have been more derogatory - but its a free world I guess. I'll continue answering constructive questions as best I can for now. Kindest.

 

Enough said.

 

Atb

[al4x]

Oh,I believe you Alex.

 

 

you should as this is a specialist niche market.

 

Come on though which Ex member are you re incarnated from you must have been on here under another name

[RFDNET]

It seems to be of benefit on a side not if the purchased item was from a private individual (no warranty) and financed through RFD-NET would RFD-Net then be liable for a warranty under the CCA?

 

Having a list of RFD's that will accept the delivery deal with releasing it for a known fee and then offer a seemless returns procedure in the event of an issue would be beneficial after all pretty much any RFD should be able to arrange collection of a firearm from another RFD through the various RFD-RFD schemes in place (be it yours or the GTA one etc)

 

RFD's have a legal protection to exist which 99% of other retailers don't, if boots can deliver your prescription then i dont see why you can't have a shotgun or rifle delivered (with appropriate safe guards) I believe there is a method where you can send your cert to supplying RFD and have cert returned once item is written on it then the item shipped direct, wonder why it has taken so long for someone to figure it out?

 

Well, now your straying into another legal minefield...but despite how cert is written (supplying dealer BTW is always supposed to write on the customers ticket when selling a gun - but that's another thread - check with BASC for clarification). Despire all of this, the face to face bit (even if not the writing of the ticket) in resepct of any new sales must be done face to face by an RFD or his servant. What's however under discussion on this thread is private to private sales, which is another matter...helps I hope - but I am not advising, only commenting...for advice best speak to BASC or Police FXO I woulkd suggest. Kindest.

[RFDNET]

It seems to be of benefit on a side not if the purchased item was from a private individual (no warranty) and financed through RFD-NET would RFD-Net then be liable for a warranty under the CCA?

 

Having a list of RFD's that will accept the delivery deal with releasing it for a known fee and then offer a seemless returns procedure in the event of an issue would be beneficial after all pretty much any RFD should be able to arrange collection of a firearm from another RFD through the various RFD-RFD schemes in place (be it yours or the GTA one etc)

 

RFD's have a legal protection to exist which 99% of other retailers don't, if boots can deliver your prescription then i dont see why you can't have a shotgun or rifle delivered (with appropriate safe guards) I believe there is a method where you can send your cert to supplying RFD and have cert returned once item is written on it then the item shipped direct, wonder why it has taken so long for someone to figure it out?

 

Good point - and yes, RFD-NET would almost certainly accume supply of goods responsibilities. The service would therefore be at a premium. We have also developed our own exclusive insurance underwirtten warranty which covers gun, stock, forend, mechanical failure and also theft, loss and damage of any kind...so way beyong your standard manufacturers/suppliers warranty. That is also available at a premium, and once again I'd also welcome anyones thoughts on whether they would pay a premium to add such cover/finance etc? If there's demand, we'll support it, but if knowone woudl use it - not worth bothering I guess. Thoughts anyone?

[HDAV]

Buying privately you should pay less but own the problems as they arise buying from a retailer you have some come back in theory, again firearms law and consumer law overlap. This could offer the best of both worlds?

 

I see the benefit of the service especially if it simplifies and makes more robust private to private sales at distance and unless your buying a £50 gun the costs are reasonable, would i use the service? If i needed to I would I am also amazed at the number of people who buy guns without ever actually shooting them......

 

The Idea of financing a privately bought gun is interesting (and what people have been doing with cars for years by getting a personal loan) but for things of value like say a DT10 or a kreighoff it might be worth it

[RFDNET]

Buying privately you should pay less but own the problems as they arise buying from a retailer you have some come back in theory, again firearms law and consumer law overlap. This could offer the best of both worlds?

 

I see the benefit of the service especially if it simplifies and makes more robust private to private sales at distance and unless your buying a £50 gun the costs are reasonable, would i use the service? If i needed to I would I am also amazed at the number of people who buy guns without ever actually shooting them......

 

The Idea of financing a privately bought gun is interesting (and what people have been doing with cars for years by getting a personal loan) but for things of value like say a DT10 or a kreighoff it might be worth it

 

Thanks for comments. I concur, if its a valuable gun then it can work. Generally, we wouldn't want to get involved financing a gun under a grand, with a theoretical max of three grand in order we obtain value - for both us and the clients (buyer and seler). Thanks again for input. Much appreciated and very welcome.