Kes Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 It almost happened at the last election - no overall winner, are you sure the one party which agrees to do as the voters want - (even on the DP) would not sacrifice any of their principles to be 'in office'. Didnt DC 'pledge' to reverse the hunting ban? How are WE going to 'sanction' him if he doesnt deliver ? Or do we just forget it and moan about it as always ? What we need is an organisation to Champion the proposal, one which will advertise any failure to respond to the majority viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR1960 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 No. It should not be reintroduced. Mark of a civilized society and all that. In the recent past there have been a number of Irish people convicted of high profile murders at times of heightened public emotion and I have no doubt they would habve been executed if the law had permitted it. Many have been acquitted on appeal in circumstances where it has been shown that there has been a conspiracy of the part of the police and others. It is too easy to judicially kill people and then repent at leisure. I do not believe it is a real deterrent and the evidence, I believe, supports that view. Indeed, how ever much the ******** might deserve it doesn't mean its the civilised thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Where do these words come from 'uncivilised'. Its a peculiar form of arrogance to condemn the largest democratic society in the world as 'uncivilised'. Do you have any similar rebuke for the Taliban - they have no qualms about illigitimate murder - are they 'uncivilised' or something worse ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Where do these words come from 'uncivilised'. Its a peculiar form of arrogance to condemn the largest democratic society in the world as 'uncivilised'. Do you have any similar rebuke for the Taliban - they have no qualms about illigitimate murder - are they 'uncivilised' or something worse ? I must say that as much as I like the idea of dirty ******* rotters getting their just desserts whenever I hear of the Yanks frying one there's a bit of me that just isn't comfortable with it. I think less of them as a nation for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR1960 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Where do these words come from 'uncivilised'. Its a peculiar form of arrogance to condemn the largest democratic society in the world as 'uncivilised'. Do you have any similar rebuke for the Taliban - they have no qualms about illigitimate murder - are they 'uncivilised' or something worse ? If you're refering to America, then yes i would condemn them as uncivilised in several areas. Democracy doesn't necessarily equate to being civilised! As for the Taliban, what a ridiculous comparison, would you regard them as civilised? And since when have they been a democratically elected government? As for arrogance, what higher form of arrogance can there be than to take another persons life simply for some sort of macho revenge and on the supposition that you know they are guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 As for arrogance, what higher form of arrogance can there be than to take another persons life simply for some sort of macho revenge and on the supposition that you know they are guilty. Some of these horrible folk are pure unadulterated evil though. It hard to find a reason to justify their existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Why Ack-Ack, if its what their society says it needs to protect itself? No-one can doubt the need to keep some of these people out of circulation - why should permanently ensuring they stay out of circulation, exite such dislike? They have killed people, for the victims' families there is no life worth living left, no release from their personal purgatory. Why should we be upset by their lives being sacrificed as they did their victims ? It's not hard to visualise ones self in the position of seeing the murderer of your close 'anybody', go free after serving a woefully inadequate term in prison. I very much admire the gentleman whose daughter was killed in N Ireland at a Remembrance Day parade, but his ability to forgive, as much as it is to his credit, is not in me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR1960 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Some of these horrible folk are pure unadulterated evil though. It hard to find a reason to justify their existence. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree, no-one said it was the easy choice........ As was previously said, if it was me and mine i'd happily kill them with my bare hands, doesn't mean it's civilised though does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Yes, I wholeheartedly agree, no-one said it was the easy choice........ As was previously said, if it was me and mine i'd happily kill them with my bare hands, doesn't mean it's civilised though does it? Cant really come back on that. Well played chap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 If you're refering to America, then yes i would condemn them as uncivilised in several areas. Democracy doesn't necessarily equate to being civilised! As for the Taliban, what a ridiculous comparison, would you regard them as civilised? And since when have they been a democratically elected government? As for arrogance, what higher form of arrogance can there be than to take another persons life simply for some sort of macho revenge and on the supposition that you know they are guilty. If I thought the Yanks wrong for implementing the death penalty, I'd call them misguided, the Taliban are truly uncivilised - hence my question. As for the arrogance of taking another persons life for the purpose of revenge or perhaps prevention, if proved guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, why not? Or do you actually think that someone who is beyond civilising has a place in a civilised society, even behind bars for the rest of their lives. Ok you pay for it and feel warm inside. I'd go for the opposite where the crime is sufficient and guilt confirmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Or do you actually think that someone who is beyond civilising has a place in a civilised society, even behind bars for the rest of their lives. Ok you pay for it and feel warm inside. I'd go for the opposite where the crime is sufficient and guilt confirmed. Even if we had the death penalty the decades spent on 'death row' with appeals, counter appeals and legal aruments mean that the cost of prison compared to execution will be negligable. I'm fully against the death penalty, but as said before I'd probably change my mind if it as one of my family or friends that was the victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Does anyone seriously believe it would cost less to go through with the death penalty than keep them locked up for the rest of their life? If you do I can assure you you are very wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Murderers KILL THEM, Rapist's KILL THEM , Muggers of old ladies KILL THEM, Peadophiles KILL THEM SLOWLY, Fly tippers KILL THEM TOO. Ahmm sorry yes I am in favour of said motion. I am a little concerned though that I have heard rumours of it becoming a capital offence to use 7.5s on pigeon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 There is a supreme arrogance in assuming that you as another human should have the right over another person's life. This arrogance is sickening enough when seen in the murderer of another, but to be supported by the state as 'punishment' is without moral justification ever. Having a the perpatrator behind bars is all is ever required of justice, the only reason want execution is to fulfil the basic and grubby desire for retribution. As for people who want limbs cut off, beatings etc., go and live somewhere else where that sort of thing happens, it has no place here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Why Ack-Ack, if its what their society says it needs to protect itself? Its just vengeance though Kes. The folk at the bottom of the barrel in US society are the product of a machine that's far more disfunctional than ours. Everybody has the choice over their own destiny but stupid people don't rationalise like those with the benefit of an education or aspirations. The US seems to lay the ultimate punishment on the perpetrators of the crimes without trying to get to the route cause of the problems. They then take their unique brand of what they deem as a healthy society and try and force it upon nations that have their own ideas of how they want to do things and then wonder why so many nations hate them. The death penalty in the states might make the bible bashers feel a bit safer in their homes but for desperate people its a risk, not a detterant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 If the process leading to a verdict is confirmed in a subsequent review then, if you are going to do this, there has to be a limit to appeals, after that and, assuming the original verdict is confirmed, the sentence should be carried out, for the good of all concerned. I would hate to see one innocent die through a miscarriage of justice, however, if the process leading to a confirmed verdict is robust, perhaps that possibility can be eradicated. Any vestigial doubt would trigger a 'life' sentence. I'm not advocating the cutting off of hands for theft or the stoning of adulterous women which, as we all know, is not considered uncivilised as its the law developed from the second most practiced religeon globally. I wonder if any opinions are influenced by political correctness ? I have enjoyed the debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Does anyone seriously believe it would cost less to go through with the death penalty than keep them locked up for the rest of their life? If you do I can assure you you are very wrong. This view for very obvious reasons has to be an opinion - not fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Any vestigial doubt would trigger a 'life' sentence. They would only be convicted if they were found guilty 'beyond reasonable doubt' so if there was any doubt they would be released! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Good debate gents, I'm heading off to kip. Don't have nightmares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Its just vengeance though Kes. The folk at the bottom of the barrel in US society are the product of a machine that's far more disfunctional than ours. Everybody has the choice over their own destiny but stupid people don't rationalise like those with the benefit of an education or aspirations. The US seems to lay the ultimate punishment on the perpetrators of the crimes without trying to get to the route cause of the problems. They then take their unique brand of what they deem as a healthy society and try and force it upon nations that have their own ideas of how they want to do things and then wonder why so many nations hate them. The death penalty in the states might make the bible bashers feel a bit safer in their homes but for desperate people its a risk, not a detterant A worthy comment, unemtionally delivered - I salute you. I'll also think about what you have said. Regards, Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 This view for very obvious reasons has to be an opinion - not fact. The average time on death row in California is 20 years and the average lifer in the UK spends just 14 years inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 (edited) I think it's unfair to penalise the hard of hearing. Edited August 4, 2011 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 This view for very obvious reasons has to be an opinion - not fact. It's fact based on the US states that exercise the death penalty option. But that's not the point, so regardless of it being opinion or fact - do you agree or disagree the death penalty is the more costly option? In formulating your response please also consider what your opinion of an acceptable percentage of error in the final, irreversible, verdict would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 I think it's unfair to penalise the hard of hearing. What about the hard of thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 What about the hard of thinking? Yes, them too if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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