Andy135 Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 I'm in a similar position to the OP - the advice on this thread is priceless. Keep it coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t jack Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 So trial dogs are not too hot, yet many good dogs are sold on because they aint hot enough for trialing Are you a complete Mong??? "all" trial dogs are not hot I've had ftch x ftch pups that would never win a trial, any litter can throw up hot pups just with trial dogs you know at least the parents are proven to be sound in mouth and no noise etc, something you cannot guarantee buying from non trial stock, hence my suggestion of buying a young trained dog, you know what your getting and there are no surprises, and in the long run it's cheaper. Sometimes I don't know why I bother, you get so many one dog experts on here that wouldnt know a good dog if it bit them on the ****! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 So trial dogs are not too hot, yet many good dogs are sold on because they aint hot enough for trialing You might want to read t jacks post again. He is only saying that only a select few dogs are hot enough for trialing (as with any breeding program, you select the dogs with the trait that you require over other dogs) so many don't make the grade and are sold on part trained; ie not all trail dogs are too hot. I don't see any problem with that reasoning, although 'hot' for one maybe 'too hot' for another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butcherboy Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) I don't remember saying ALL trialling dogs were too hot! The OP needed to state what he wants it for because it is far easier to direct him. I have a young dog here who will make a lovely shooting dog & he has a cracking nature. Trial? Not unless I can stick a rocket up his **** He has came from top lines but knowing how he has turned out I wouldn't buy off that bitch again, though I would recommend her for some peoples needs (yes I know there is the the Sire to think of blah blah) I have another bitch here who is trialling this season & she is a rocket. While not claiming to be an expert there is no way I could cope with her as either my 1st dog or a house dog. She's hypher.....and I love her Its all to easy to buy FTCH x FTCH and not get a dog thats right for you, which given that these pups are now £1000 its an expensive mistake to make. Personally if I was the OP I'd get one off the trialling lads that isn't making the grade because it lacks fire, not because of any faults. Besides one cocker is never enough Edited September 7, 2011 by butcherboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Are you a complete Mong??? "all" trial dogs are not hot I've had ftch x ftch pups that would never win a trial, any litter can throw up hot pups just with trial dogs you know at least the parents are proven to be sound in mouth and no noise etc, something you cannot guarantee buying from non trial stock, hence my suggestion of buying a young trained dog, you know what your getting and there are no surprises, and in the long run it's cheaper. Sometimes I don't know why I bother, you get so many one dog experts on here that wouldnt know a good dog if it bit them on the ****! Firstly watch the name calling thier are forum rules. The initial intention is to breed a hot dog, if the guy wants a pup it cannot be descerned, though the expectation should be hot! i see your point about buying a "tepid part trained", but your advice reflected a great example of what a trialing dog should be and what the breeder tries to create. This is a hairy disaster on legs for a first timer who's wife needed to be pursaded. This was not reffered to in the slightest, if you wish i will give him chapter and verse about the downsides of buying rejected dogs as "part trained" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 If we try and get this back on track for the OP, the normal pup buying advice still holds true - try and see the sire and dam to judge what you may end up with, talk to the breeder and explain your needs, experience (or lack of) and what you want the dog for. An experienced breeder, or more to the point, a breeder who is an experienced handler will be able to guide you and help you; if you don't get that feeling, walk away. If you have a mating in mind and want some guidance, post some pedigree details on here and some advice can be offered as to what traits those breed lines have, although it is purely a paper exercise and no guarantee. I've got an absolute rocket of an ESS here with a pedigree which has a smattering of FTCh, on paper she should be a nice wee shooting dog, ideal for the OP. In reality she's a hard headed, hard going, hyperactive nutcase that I happen to have a great deal of time for, even if she has put a few more grey hairs on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 The problem I see with buying trained or part trained is that the most important person (the owner) misses out on the training lol. Buy a dog, get some lessons in how to maintain it's trained status. A lot easier than making a load of cock ups with a pup then going to a trainer when the dog is a year old problem. Pups, part trained and full trained all have their merits, but in all cases the handler has to have half an idea of what they are doing or the dog will become an unruly mess. If you know nothing, recognise that and go and see someone who can advise you. The old "satisfaction from training a pup" argument will get trotted out no doubt, it is only satisfying if you can do it - it is nothing but frustration if you think it will all come naturally to you and the dog, training is hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam f Posted September 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 It's all been good advice guys and Ive learnt alot already. Yes this is my first dog. She will be used for working, mainly rough shooting and pigeon shooting with me, but I'm keen to work a beating line etc as and when I get more experianced with her. I do want a puppy, and I'm intending to use a local gundog trainer to help me to train her. She will also be a family pet. I think ive decided to take the advice of buying local and discussin with a breeder - I'm in no rush and would rather have the right dog. Ive got a fair few feelers out - it's a slow process though! Thanks again all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t jack Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 My intention when I was out on the pull was to go home with Pamela Anderson, it never happened but it still didn't stop me from trying! Despite best efforts nothing is guaranteed, if you want a hot pup, train it accordingly, if you want an easy going one do likewise, but buy from tested, trialing stock, it's the only assurance you have that the parents are sound, if you want to increase your odds further buy a trained adult one, then you really know what your getting! Firstly watch the name calling thier are forum rules. The initial intention is to breed a hot dog, if the guy wants a pup it cannot be descerned, though the expectation should be hot! i see your point about buying a "tepid part trained", but your advice reflected a great example of what a trialing dog should be and what the breeder tries to create. This is a hairy disaster on legs for a first timer who's wife needed to be pursaded. This was not reffered to in the slightest, if you wish i will give him chapter and verse about the downsides of buying rejected dogs as "part trained" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t jack Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Also worth remembering trial dogs are just very polished shooting dogs, one could happily do both, the other unlikely...trial dogs make fantastic shooting dogs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 Also worth remembering trial dogs are just very polished shooting dogs, one could happily do both, the other unlikely...trial dogs make fantastic shooting dogs! How many spaniel trials involve sitting in a hide for a few hours? The op stated pigeon shooting as part of his brief. So very polished dogs, that take the eye of the judges yes they are If the op visits some trials he might decide IF thats the type of dog he requires, though remember you can't turn them all off very easy. Again Rally cars are by the same as std extra polished hatchbacks etc. Try pursading your other half of that when she wants to go out in a posh frock and the harness is playing havock with it There are comparisoms to be drawn thats all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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