mpk Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Had a look on my barrels and action and for the life of me can't find the symbol ? It says in the manual which chokes are fine for steel ! Very confused did they just stop stamping them or do I really own the only non-steel proofed urika 2 in the country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Remove the barrel? Underneath? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 probably cos it's proofed in Italy not Birmingham! https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Proofmarks.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 probably cos it's proofed in Italy not Birmingham! https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Proofmarks.pdf Cheers nickbeardo had a look at those proof marks and it does have one but that only means it was " provisional proofed" not sure about steel though am I still being a numpty and not looking properly, I have also checked under the barrels ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hmm just checked an.should still have fleur ( for hi peeformance steel) http://www.europarl.europa.eu/hearings/20061004/imco/genco_en.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Ok just checked that to , it has all those Italy markings but no fleur.......slightly worried does anybody have an al391 urika 2 with the same issue ? The chokes mention for steel or not the manual mentions for steel and factory loads etc. Also shows which chokes to use and not to but no fleu de lys ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Contact GMK in the morning for clarififcation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Will take normal steel loads just not HP ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Will take normal steel loads just not HP ones Wouldn't the likes of gamebore mammoth steel be a hp load ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ91 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 gamebore mammoth isn't a high performance load. It will be fine to use through quarter choke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Mmmmmm not sure about that non HP loads most not be above feo shot size 4 and I can only find mammoth steel in 3 and lower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I shoot gamebore super steel size 4 http://www.gamebore.com/page.php?id1=2&id2=6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Just spoken to gmk who have advised that the marks PSF and 2 stars mean thy are proofed for standard steel, they recommend 1040 bar but they are all proofed to 1340 bar. He also said a lot of the newer guns do not have the fluer symbol but are fine. It's all about weather they decide to proof them.........I was given the impression it was more of a paperwork issue but the guns mechanically are fine for steel as they all have the same type barrels even the ones that do have the symbol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 So what denotes a hp load is it service pressure, shot size or something different ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) The PSF with two stars signifies that it has been proofed to 17637 psi ( 1216 bar ) magnum or superior proof , And must be stamped on shotguns with chambers longer than 70mm . It is not an official steel proof , As of 1993 that is the fleur de leys only. Edited October 5, 2011 by Andy H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 My gun was made in 2007 so does that mean it's not steel proofed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 My gun was made in 2007 so does that mean it's not steel proofed Standard loads only http://www.europarl.europa.eu/hearings/20061004/imco/genco_en.pdf scroll down to italian marks. And see here http://www.shotguns.se/html/steel_proof.html also http://www.shotguns.se/html/italy.html The high performance steel is almost the same the Magnum steel proof and the gun may well be fine, but it isn't "proofed" for HP steel so in the event of an issue with a steel load i dont know what the outcome would be you cant contact the Birmingham proof house here http://www.gunproof.com/Proofing/proofing.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) "The high performance steel is almost the same the Magnum steel proof " Not true!!!!!!! 3" magnum and 3.5" magnum is I believe 1200 bar proofing pressure? HP steel 1370 bar. Might be wrong but I did look into this in some detail a while ago. And I remember a 3.5" proof pressure is considerably lower than HP steel. This is proofing not cartridge pressures!!!! Edited October 5, 2011 by utectok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 The gun is proofed to 1370 bar so I hope I would be fine, after speaking to another supplier apparently the proof house in Italy charged extra for steel proofing so they didn't bother although they are the same barrel/gun as the ones that have been stamped ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 i read "CIP high performance proof is 1370 bar -19.870psi for a working pressure of 1050bar-" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 "The high performance steel is almost the same the Magnum steel proof " Not true!!!!!!! 3" magnum and 3.5" magnum is I believe 1050 bar proofing pressure? HP steel 1370 bar. Might be wrong but I did look into this in some detail a while ago. And I remember a 3.5" proof pressure is considerably lower than HP steel. This is proofing not cartridge pressures!!!! According to http://www.shotguns.se/html/steel_proof.html they are both 1050 bar? The thing about proof is it isnt a Type approval it is an individual approval so those stamped have had the massive proof load through them. Thos enot havent, thats why its proof! Beretta or GMK decided that the Proof wasnt worth paying for, you could submit it for proof to birmingham and get it stamped, assuming it passes... CIP sets two levels of chamber pressure for steelshot classification and proof: Standard Steel Shot and High Performance Steel Shot. The Standard Steel Shot has a maximum average pressure of 740 bar (10,733 psi). This maximum average is below the limit for all 12 gauge shells (11,500 psi) in the United States – lead and steel. The proof level for Standard Steel Shot, 1,200 bar (17,405 psi) is also below the proof level of all 12 gauge guns (lead and steel) in the United States. The High Performance Steel Shot has a maximum average pressure of 1,050 bar (15,229 psi). This maximum average is significantly higher than all 12 gauge shells in the United States – lead and steel, even including the new 3-1/2” loads. The proof level for High Performance Steel Shot, 1,370 bar (19,870 psi), actually falls right in the middle of the United States proof load specification (19,000 to 20,500 psi). Note that from a SAAMI standpoint, this CIP High Performance proof level is low for the actual working pressure of the service loads (see Diagram 1). http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/104995/NTS_-_Steel_Shot_Standards_Pressures_and_Proofing.pdf And from the same source: European gun manufacturers and retailers are oftenincluding "proofed for steel" in their advertising for new guns. We can take this to mean that the barrels and choke tubes have been constructed to ensure choke swelling does not occur, and that higher chamber pressures can be safely used from the CIP’s High Performance group. It does not mean that an existing gun, without this proof stamp, is inherently unsafe to use steel loads which generate lower chamber pressures, comparable to existing lead shot loads. If in doubt about your gun – see a competent gunsmith. It has to be acknowledged that this is a less than perfect arrangement for the Australian hunter. But we can take some reassurance from the practical experience of steel shot use in Australia. After nearly a decade of non-toxic shot use in South Australia and the Northern Territory and several years of use in Victoria, no user safety or gun damage incidences have been reported from its use. If you are in any doubt over your shotgun’s ability to use non-toxic alternatives (especially steel), consult a qualified gunsmith or your firearm’s manufacturer. I am now even more confused than before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 all here http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/104995/NTS_-_Steel_Shot_Standards_Pressures_and_Proofing.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 the cip page you directed top is for cartridge pressures not proof pressures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) i read "CIP high performance proof is 1370 bar -19.870psi for a working pressure of 1050bar-" That's exactly what gmk said to me and how the gun is proofed ?? This is getting confusing Edited October 5, 2011 by mpk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Do they not have proof laws in australia ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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