mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Also spoke to another gun smith at gmk that has said that if it doesn't have the fluer symbol then no hp steel, he has said that they are proofed to 1320 bar but recommend 1050 which would put even the gambore mammoths out of the question. I can use low and slow steel but not the fast stuff (which is what I have :( Now I really am confused !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super sharp shooter Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Why would you risk yourself and your gun if it doesn't say it Just not wort it that's my view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlistairB Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 This is really confusing me now, i'm in a similar position, my Benelli M2 has the Italian PSF and 2 stars but no FDL, yet i've run Gamebore Mammoth 34g steel 4's through it with no problem. At the time i bought i was told it was fine with them! The PSF mark is for 17637 PSI which is about 1216 Bar so now i dont know what to do with it judging by mpk's comment above! AB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) Why would you risk yourself and your gun if it doesn't say it Just not wort it that's my view [ I think the problem is different advice from gunsmiths /suppliers telling you they are steel proofed but beretta just didn't proof them as it costs more ? Even though some are proofed but are the same gun ? But I do agree I want to find out what is safe and if hp steel is not then I won't use it, the issue is the confusion as to what marks mean what and to why they do on certain guns of the same model but not others but sell them as "steel proofed" guns ? Edited October 5, 2011 by mpk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 This is really confusing me now, i'm in a similar position, my Benelli M2 has the Italian PSF and 2 stars but no FDL, yet i've run Gamebore Mammoth 34g steel 4's through it with no problem. At the time i bought i was told it was fine with them! The PSF mark is for 17637 PSI which is about 1216 Bar so now i dont know what to do with it judging by mpk's comment above! AB Tell me about it gmk say one thing gunsmiths say another, the manual says nothing other than the chokes are steel proof. The service pressure states that my mammoth steels are unusable but I have been told it's steel proofed aaaaaaa !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlistairB Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I need to have another nose through the manual when i get home i think! If it's a money saving exercise it's a bit of a pain in the bum really because you can never have certainty about what you can and cant use! AB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super sharp shooter Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Just had a look around and it seems that the field and the extrema are proofed for steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 to be fair and just to be "safe" i wouldnt entertain using HP steel unless you have the FDL proof mark. If it doesnt have it then it has not been proofed for HP steel, simple as that really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super sharp shooter Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Have a look on Mc Avory guns online and next to the picture it says steel proofed with the FDL symbol so yes hp loads can be shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Have a look on Mc Avory guns online and next to the picture it says steel proofed with the FDL symbol so yes hp loads can be shot But proof isnt a type approval it's individual, only way to be 100% sure is send it to brum to be proofed for steel and get FDL stamped on it! I would compose an email to Birmingham Proof House as they are the experts (I already think they will reply with "no FDL" then do not use HP steel" but see what they say) Also email GMK and ask them to put it writing that the HP steel are "safe to use" even tho there is no FDL, I bet they won't. Just glad my browning has the FDL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super sharp shooter Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Lucky my citori has FDL symbol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) I really think you need the FDL if you want to use HP steel... I am thinking of getting my gun reproofed I believe that the newer beretta's and Benelli's were simply proofed for HP steel (1370 bar) and no design changes were made. So the older ones should sail through HP steel proofing. Tried phoning proof house to get a price but no joy (weird oner ring and cut off!!) Edited October 5, 2011 by utectok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Not a bad idea utectok let us know how you get on if you do. I wonder how much it costs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) I really think you need the FDL if you want to use HP steel... I am thinking of getting my gun reproofed I believe that beretta's and Benelli's were simply proofed for HP steel and no design changes were made. So they should sail through HP steel proofing. Tried phoning proof house to get a price but no joy (weird oner ring and cut off!!) Best off getting a gunsmith to send it but IIRC "The cost of proofing would between £43.00 and £50.00 + VAT depending on the calibre" not sure what it would be just for HP steel. If it saves Beretta €5-10 on every gun it soon adds up, but on a £800 gun? seems daft not to get it all properly stamped at the the time? Hatsan are steel proofed and have the FDL! Edited October 5, 2011 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I shall be phoning soon and will report back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Pretty sure the newer berettas and benellis have FDL look forward to hearing how you get on with the proof house Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I shall be phoning soon and will report back Has Ians got the stamp on his gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) Has Ians got the stamp on his gun? Nope he doesnt think so but will check tonight ! He has thrown 35 odd of those mammoth steel and has had no issues. Do you have one on yours ? To get a re-proof it's about 80-90 quid If you drop it of for a same day job or around 40 if you post it Edited October 5, 2011 by mpk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Thinking about it the same guns get proofed in the same section of the proof house in Italy then surely some come here and some across the pond to the yanks. Who have no proof laws and will feed anything they can get there hands on down the barrels?? Surely says it all. I have never heard if one going pop from incorrect cartridge use or pressure over thier.....seems a bit "gun-ho" but a valid point I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Thinking about it the same guns get proofed in the same section of the proof house in Italy then surely some come here and some across the pond to the yanks. Who have no proof laws and will feed anything they can get there hands on down the barrels?? Surely says it all. I have never heard if one going pop from incorrect cartridge use or pressure over thier.....seems a bit "gun-ho" but a valid point I think Seriously, if you want to take the risk then do so. But if it is not proofed for steel i wouldnt take the risk, who is to say that the batch that your gun came in failed the FDL proof testing and thus wasnt given it? Either way if you want to use HP dont just assume its safe, get it off to the proof house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Just making a point about the proof laws across different country's and how disimilar they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Oh i wasnt saying any different , but you dont want to go and end up casuing yourself a mischeif I agree, but then we are on about the yanks Out of interest, what does the proof rating say on the barrel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) This is why I mention it, it doesn't actually say on the barrel but according to the proof marks is " voluntarily superior proofed " which according to the two people I spoke to at gmk today is either 1320 bar or 1370 bar I'm not one to do some thing incredibly stupid but I'm starting to wonder about the credibility of the hp proof markings due to the constant confliction between birmingham proof house, gmk and locall gun shops then cartridge makers on top of that. It seems there is no real definitive line that can be used to work from also someone told me early that the pressures tested are 30-40% higher than stamped to allow for cartridge fluctuations. An also my gun is perfectly safe for normal steel but is proofed up to the pressure for hp steel confused!!! Edited October 5, 2011 by mpk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) I have read that they pressure test with a "double" load, if this is true or not i cant say But i know the HP steel is 1370 or there abouts I have a O/U that is rated 1440 KGS which is about 1410 BAR but i have been told not to use steel in it Hence why im saying best to safe and have it checked I also have a Hatsan Escort, which has the FDL proof mark as well as saying "steel shot" but according to the box it only says 1200 kgs i have spoken with Edgar Brothers and they say its a european standard proof for 3" chambered guns but its tested in the UK to HP steel loads and the proof rating is in excess of the required ammount to use HP steel Edited October 5, 2011 by M.I.A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 It's crazy really isn't it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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