sqeeking springer

[darren m]

one of my dogs ( cali ) as a habit of squeeking when she gets excited ie. waiting for the drive to start or even being told to sit and ignored for a while.

 

when shes working/hunting shes fine.

 

ive ignored it but its getting louder and more frequent

shes a bit immature at only 20 months , as shes had a hard start to life with 4 ops and plenty of complications this year , but i,ve finally got her out beating

 

trouble is shes always been a bit verbal in the kennel etc , and maybe i should of tried to nip it in the bud earlier.

 

so any ideas what can i do , was thinking water pistol , but shops dont have any this time of year.. any other ideas

 

thanks all

[kent]

Don't use the water pistol, just be consistant and correct it first time every time with any shock tactic like a jerk of a slip lead or quick touch to the neck etc. Tools like this don't help generally the only exeption being the elec collar which in this circumstance should be used as "aversion" (the dog does not even know you are displeased or you are connected with the correction in any way) All it knows is it squeeks and gets a quick funny feeling (not high enough to create pain) in its neck- very much a second tactic after lots of perseverance and consistancy, not that it hurts the dog as correctly done it wont, just you can end up with a dog that connects wearing the collar with not being able to commit the sin. If three sessions of the collar dont work then the dog aint even aware its doing it

[straightbarrel]

How do you go about letting her out of the kennel in the mornings? Is she greeted with excitment, lots of verbals from yourself, food, lots of fuss?

 

How do you cast her off to start working?

[the_commoner]

i would be interested in seeing the replies to this thread, my cocker has become more and more verbal over the past 2 years.

 

she is told to wait before i enter the kennel etc but can often have a little yap when she is cast off

 

she can also be very noisy in the kenell, not barking but very whiny

[pavman]

um tough one this, the trainer i have my dogs from says once they do it on the peg its a bit late.......

I stopped my labs (3) from barking in the run by the jug of cold water method as taught to me

(only whilst they bark, you have to sneak up to catch them at it or they dont understand why) you have to be strict on yourself even if its 2am or it wont work. It will not hurt its not cruel it forms an association so the dog thinks when I bark dad thinks I am asking for a jug of cold water which i don’t particularly like, so if I don’t bark no cold water…….. in each case it took about a week but I can tell you my neighbours are pleased I did it as am I, they don’t squeak and I don’t know if this is related. When I let them out in the morning its with some control not jumping all over the place , they have to sit then I open the door and beckon them into me they get a nice soft greeting and plenty of love but on my terms not there’s they then get to play and run about before we go out to exorcise/train/work

[UKPoacher]

If the dog is squeaking or otherwise vocal or pulling / breaking you have to understand what is the root of it to be able to try and control or cure it. My take on this is as follows:

 

A dog like most hunting animals is conditioned to hunt as efficiently as possible. The longer it waits before chasing or hunting prey the less chance of its success and ultimately in the case of wild hunters, its survival.

 

The dog is therefore frustrated at being deprived of success hence it squeaking, yelping or breaking before being cast off. It resents being held back.

 

In training the technique I have used with dogs that develope this trait is to turn the thing on its head. When the dog squeaks or breaks, move back a few yards or turn and walk the dog away from the stand for a few seconds, then return and sit the dog. Repeat as necessary.

 

The idea is that this behaviour results in the dog being less efficient. To be more efficient it has to sit still and quiet.

 

Same thing can be used in kenelling. If the dog makes a noise or is rattling the kennel turn and walk away. Only come back once it has stopped (if it does stop that is. Some don't). The dog is only rewarded for waiting quietly.

 

If you have a dog that continues to yelp and / or rattle the kennel then the root is more likely to be frustration at being kenneled, not wanting to get after the quarry ASAP. This needs a different approach.

 

Just an idea.

[darren m]

How do you go about letting her out of the kennel in the mornings? Is she greeted with excitment, lots of verbals from yourself, food, lots of fuss?

 

How do you cast her off to start working?

 

yea she gets really excited when i greet her , i try and calm her and make her sit first before letting her out.

maybe thats it i talk to her and she talks back

 

when waiting for a drive to start , i,ll sit her up , she stays put , but soon starts sqeeking with excitement. does same thing when the shooting starts , but cast her off and she quiet ( so far ).

other times if shes knows i,m about she want to be with me and crys then as well

[Elby]

Does she run in when she sees a bird drop?

[WGD]

In my opinion you won't stop it once it's started - a bark, howl or yelp yes you might, but squeaking dogs don't even know they're doing it half the time so correction is a waste of time.

 

I also believe it is handler induced, the wrong sort of conditioning for the wrong sort of dog - in this instance probably making an excitable dog excited with plenty of training and playing rather than time spent conditioning patience.

 

Sorry mate, if you find something that works please tell me - I have one otherwise great ESS that squeaks the minute her backside has been on the floor more than a minute

[straightbarrel]

If the dog is squeaking or otherwise vocal or pulling / breaking you have to understand what is the root of it to be able to try and control or cure it. My take on this is as follows:

 

A dog like most hunting animals is conditioned to hunt as efficiently as possible. The longer it waits before chasing or hunting prey the less chance of its success and ultimately in the case of wild hunters, its survival.

 

Not sure about that mate. Many of natures best hunters rely on stealth and patience. Any animal that makes noises either prior to hunting or during the search, are cutting their chances of success, IMO.

 

Darren m, if it were me, I would just try to keep things as calm as possble. In the morning I would try changing the routine, come out to the kennel, dont meet and greet, especially if the dog is excitable. Try to work out what the expectation is with her, is it seeing you and expecting a walk? Seeing you and expecting grub? Seeing you and expecting a fuss to be made, or possibly all three? I would go out same time, potter around, if she squeaks, immediately get up close to the situation and shush her, try to snap her out of it midway through the sqeak if possible. Go away after 5 or 10 mins then come back and go over the same thing,when you get to the stage of coming out to the kennel and she is quiet, make sure you reward her, let her out, only when she is quiet and dont fuss over her just be matter of fact about it.

 

No magic wand mate but I'm sure someone will be able to add some ideas that might help also. Good luck.

Edited November 16, 2011 by straightbarrel

[UKPoacher]

Not sure about that mate. Many of natures best hunters rely on stealth and patience. Any animal that makes noises either prior to hunting or during the search, are cutting their chances of success, IMO.

 

 

 

I agree. But the dog is not being allowed to get on with it. Tat's when it starts squeaking. Once it has been cast off it will hunt quietly. There is also the situatiion whereby a dog squeaks, the handler gets embarrassed or fed up and casts the dog off before he would normally do so. The dog is then conditioning the handler to cast off when it squeaks and will continue to do so.

[straightbarrel]

I agree. But the dog is not being allowed to get on with it. Tat's when it starts squeaking. Once it has been cast off it will hunt quietly. There is also the situatiion whereby a dog squeaks, the handler gets embarrassed or fed up and casts the dog off before he would normally do so. The dog is then conditioning the handler to cast off when it squeaks and will continue to do so.

 

And quite right too.

 

The dog gets on with it when the handler is ready to allow her to get on with it. As you say, just rushing her on to avoid a situation is adding fuel to the fire. Pouring water on the fire is what is needed (metaphorically speaking). Being less vocal with her at all times could help. Cast her off without speaking and greet her in the mornings calmly and without a fuss.

 

Darren m, it has to be said mate that one of your threads last month regarding your springer chasing birds seemed to stem from the fact you were not giving the dog your full attention. Just try and concentrate on the job at hand mate and dont get distracted. keep an eye on her, recognise when she is begining to show signs of anxiety or excitement and break her train of thought, firmly.

Edited November 17, 2011 by straightbarrel

[darren m]

guys thanks - you,ve given me some food for thought there.

looking at ideas on the net and some are pretty hard

i cant see any point in getting heavy with her as all she really wants is to be with me and work for me .

 

SB - i think the more she squeeks the more attention i,m giving her , so valid point , i,ll only fuss her when she's quite at home .

in the field though i,m wondering what to do there , suppose the best i can do is to give a quick sharp NO and maybe a yank on the scruff. so it shows my displeaseure at the exact moment and make sure my timing is better.

[UKPoacher]

And quite right too.

 

The dog gets on with it when the handler is ready to allow her to get on with it. As you say, just rushing her on to avoid a situation is adding fuel to the fire. Pouring water on the fire is what is needed (metaphorically speaking). Being less vocal with her at all times could help. Cast her off without speaking and greet her in the mornings calmly and without a fuss.

 

Darren m, it has to be said mate that one of your threads last month regarding your springer chasing birds seemed to stem from the fact you were not giving the dog your full attention. Just try and concentrate on the job at hand mate and dont get distracted. keep an eye on her, recognise when she is begining to show signs of anxiety or excitement and break her train of thought, firmly.

 

Which is why I advocate just heeling her up and walking her back a few paces. So every time she squeaks she ends up further from the action. It has worked for me.

[straightbarrel]

Which is why I advocate just heeling her up and walking her back a few paces. So every time she squeaks she ends up further from the action. It has worked for me.

If that has worked for you then great, something for Dm to try out. I'm suprised your dog associated walking back a few paces with correction for squeaking, after being told to heel. No doubt it would have given it something else to focus on but as a long term fix? I hope it helps the guy.

 

Darren m , you are talking about the way you behave with her at home and the way you behave with her when working as two seperate things all together, when you say you will 'only make a fuss of her at home' then go on to say- 'in the field though, I'm wondering what to do there?'

 

I would be trying to keep her as calm as possible at all times until you signal for her to start work. That means calm at home as well.IMO

 

Good luck.

[UKPoacher]

If that has worked for you then great, something for Dm to try out. I'm suprised your dog associated walking back a few paces with correction for squeaking, after being told to heel. No doubt it would have given it something else to focus on but as a long term fix? I hope it helps the guy.

 

............

 

Good luck.

 

That's exactly it. The dog quickly associates squeaking with having to do something it does not want to do. As soon as it squeaks, it is heeled up and walked back a few yards. The dog is wanting to hunt and once the penny drops:- squeaking = heeling and walking away from the hunting area, it learns to stop squeaking as that is the fastest way to getting out to hunt. Like any dog training timing is critical. It is important to heel up the second the squeaking starts, not after you've heard it for a while and got fed up or embarrassed.