Hard facts on steel shot

[coyotemaster]

I thought perhaps a separate discussion was needed for the topic and some facts that might not be evident at fist blush might be considered. I keep reading how much a handicap steel is but I don't find it to be. I know that the steel loads, even at 1400 fps. are more than enough for ducks and geese provided the correct size shot and choke constriction is used. I shot steel Ts at geese before it became mandatory as I was killing them as far as with lead with less recoil.

Form factor is one obvious area where steel excels over lead. Steel remains round with little setback deformation and as a result resists shot stringing that is common with lead shot. The downside of this factor is that steel has a tighter pattern and short shot string meaning it is harder to center a bird at longer range where the lead load may have hit it with trailing pellets. A stationary pattern board does not tell this story, but a moving pattern board will. Bob Brister in his book "Shotgunning the Art and Science" built a 24' long target that was towed behind the family wagon. He proceeded to test stringing of various loads and the results were a little startling. Many lead loads strung out badly with weak centers but long tails. These loads may seem to be real killers but in reality they are real cripplers. He found steel loads on the other hand had the pellets all arriving at once--- DEAD DUCK to paraphrase another shooter/scientist who has fired more steel loads than anyone else namely Tom Roster.

The secret if there is one with steel is to shoot pellets with enough energy to get the job done,( BBs,1s and 2s for me thanks)for ducks and BBB or T for geese without exception. If they will kill them on the pass they will kill them over the blocks. There are several sites that list the energy levels of steel and many others that tell how much energy is needed for a clean kill. The next step is to shoot the correct choke constriction, over decoys -.010--.015

on the pass -.020 works great for me with large shot. Steel shot is effective and can be shot effectively with a little practice. I do think it is important to practice with steel if you hunt with it, load speeds affect timing.

[Frenchieboy]

A very interesting read. Well done for putting the time in to research the subjeect and explain it for the benefit of other members!

[Guest cookoff013]

I thought perhaps a separate discussion was needed for the topic and some facts that might not be evident at fist blush might be considered. I keep reading how much a handicap steel is but I don't find it to be. I know that the steel loads, even at 1400 fps. are more than enough for ducks and geese provided the correct size shot and choke constriction is used. I shot steel Ts at geese before it became mandatory as I was killing them as far as with lead with less recoil.

Form factor is one obvious area where steel excels over lead. Steel remains round with little setback deformation and as a result resists shot stringing that is common with lead shot. The downside of this factor is that steel has a tighter pattern and short shot string meaning it is harder to center a bird at longer range where the lead load may have hit it with trailing pellets. A stationary pattern board does not tell this story, but a moving pattern board will. Bob Brister in his book "Shotgunning the Art and Science" built a 24' long target that was towed behind the family wagon. He proceeded to test stringing of various loads and the results were a little startling. Many lead loads strung out badly with weak centers but long tails. These loads may seem to be real killers but in reality they are real cripplers. He found steel loads on the other hand had the pellets all arriving at once--- DEAD DUCK to paraphrase another shooter/scientist who has fired more steel loads than anyone else namely Tom Roster.

The secret if there is one with steel is to shoot pellets with enough energy to get the job done,( BBs,1s and 2s for me thanks)for ducks and BBB or T for geese without exception. If they will kill them on the pass they will kill them over the blocks. There are several sites that list the energy levels of steel and many others that tell how much energy is needed for a clean kill. The next step is to shoot the correct choke constriction, over decoys -.010--.015

on the pass -.020 works great for me with large shot. Steel shot is effective and can be shot effectively with a little practice. I do think it is important to practice with steel if you hunt with it, load speeds affect timing.

 

thanks for the additional info.

what we need to drill in to the heads of the every day shooter here, is this. use a big shotsize. i get really annoyed when so called hunters explain that shot is shot and it doesnt matter as long as it hits. i`ve even been advised a #6 steel is suitable for all wildfowling. which it seriously isnt. the one factor remains general shooting here is to knock the game out of the air with as little damage as possible and let the dog run around and get it. i`d rather whack the duck, dead in the air. drop, dog easily picks up. its simple. choose the right ammo.

you are absolutely correct with your shotsize bbs, 1s and 2s. but we have a different shotsize chart here. our sizes are one smaller. so when we pick up 2s its american 3s. thats a mis-conception. so even going up a couple of shotsizes, is a poor shell.

 

my minimal criteria would be 1oz 1400fps, american 3 or 2s for decoys, or 2s exclusive for larger duck. you probly can get away with 4s but why?

 

the general shooters try to match an already inadequate UK lead 6. i know a guy who used a 6 for everything. we`ll have conversation about shotsize and after 1/2 hour, it`ll be "just shoot a f`in` 6" it kills everything. 6 is like a US 7. same shooter, has been shooting for 50 years, says any shell above a 5 is a magnum and will blow your gun up. you seriously cant teach a old dog new tricks.

 

its even allowed to use steel 4s on clays, thats how the feeling is with steel. its only adequate to use on clays !

 

for gease its a slightly different set of rules, 1,1/8 oz minimum, bbs minimum and maybe alittle faster 1500fps isnt a fantasy here. (1,1/4oz should be ideal).

 

choking is a different ball game, i think you have covered it excellently.

[mpk]

All my ducks this season have been shot with 3" 3s and not one cripple (other than a teal that I winged which is user error) and I shot a 17.8lb Canada last night with no 1s one shot and that was dead in the air shot at about 20 yds.

 

Steel works end of !

[roughshooter]

Steel does work when the correct csrtridge/shot/powder combination is chosen but it will never be better than lead!!

Lead however is now gone so we have to get on with what we have - it will not be many years before we are not allowed to use lead at all

 

Regards

Graham

[UK fowler]

I thought perhaps a separate discussion was needed for the topic and some facts that might not be evident at fist blush might be considered. I keep reading how much a handicap steel is but I don't find it to be. I know that the steel loads, even at 1400 fps. are more than enough for ducks and geese provided the correct size shot and choke constriction is used. I shot steel Ts at geese before it became mandatory as I was killing them as far as with lead with less recoil.

Form factor is one obvious area where steel excels over lead. Steel remains round with little setback deformation and as a result resists shot stringing that is common with lead shot. The downside of this factor is that steel has a tighter pattern and short shot string meaning it is harder to center a bird at longer range where the lead load may have hit it with trailing pellets. A stationary pattern board does not tell this story, but a moving pattern board will. Bob Brister in his book "Shotgunning the Art and Science" built a 24' long target that was towed behind the family wagon. He proceeded to test stringing of various loads and the results were a little startling. Many lead loads strung out badly with weak centers but long tails. These loads may seem to be real killers but in reality they are real cripplers. He found steel loads on the other hand had the pellets all arriving at once--- DEAD DUCK to paraphrase another shooter/scientist who has fired more steel loads than anyone else namely Tom Roster.

The secret if there is one with steel is to shoot pellets with enough energy to get the job done,( BBs,1s and 2s for me thanks)for ducks and BBB or T for geese without exception. If they will kill them on the pass they will kill them over the blocks. There are several sites that list the energy levels of steel and many others that tell how much energy is needed for a clean kill. The next step is to shoot the correct choke constriction, over decoys -.010--.015

on the pass -.020 works great for me with large shot. Steel shot is effective and can be shot effectively with a little practice. I do think it is important to practice with steel if you hunt with it, load speeds affect timing.

any chance of a few long range pattern pics with the large shot 10g loads noticed you use 41grains of blue dot to shoot your 2 canadas with what sort of speeds are they clocking 65yards is hell of a way to shoot 15lb birds with steel shot!

[anser2]

Do not forget Coyotemaster is American and many of the races of canadas over there are much smaller than UK canadas , varying from brent size up to the biggest UK honkers so while 65 yards its still a hell of a range its still possibly within the capibilities of some shells at the smaller canadas.

 

The problem on an open forum like this is when some inexperianced fowler starts goose shooting and thinks he can consistantly kill geese at such ranges . He is unlikely to have the skill to shoot at such ranges or in the UK the shells to do it with. Treat 50 yards as the max range of the best quality steel 3.5 inch shells and drop down to 40 yards for the run of the mill cartridges and a lot less geese will be wounded.

Edited February 4, 2012 by anser2

[coyotemaster]

any chance of a few long range pattern pics with the large shot 10g loads noticed you use 41grains of blue dot to shoot your 2 canadas with what sort of speeds are they clocking 65yards is hell of a way to shoot 15lb birds with steel shot!

 

Nick you are coming off like a jilted lover, I won't send you 10 ga. hulls and pay the freight to the UK, I was born at night---- but not last night! I will however answer some of your questions?

 

I will again list the things necessary to hammer geese at long range. First of all bargain basement loads are out, small shot is out, and open chokes are out and lots of practice is in. For years my whole perspective was pheasant and goose hunting----everyday---for years. I was no doubt a better shot in those days than now as my focus is divided.

 

Some guys spend big $$$ for a nice gun then find the cheapest loads they can to shoot, big mistake. I have experimented with different wads, powders and steel shot brands (it is not all the same) to find the best available. Experienced loaders will tell you about a mysterious combination called a balanced load. It kills way better than it should, stuffing too much shot or powder in a shell and hoping for good result is ineffective. There has to be a balance. 41 gr. Blue Dot, 88 zinc plated T pellets, Precision reloading wad, Federal case and 209 primer. This I have found is THE combination in MY 10 ga with the lengthened forcing cone and .020 TruLock tube.

I don't remember saying these were 15# geese but it would not matter, the bigger the bird the more pellet strikes you would have meaning more energy transfer.

One thing I mentioned somewhere that is big is practicing with a load speed close to your hunting loads, within 50 fps is close enough.You can't vary input into the mental computer and expect good results. What makes good field shots? A lot of shooting. I bet if I gave my 10ga. to Pro Tom or Pigeon controller they would roll the high geese out of the sky because they shoot---alot. There are dozens of others on the site that shoot as well, these two just come to mind.

Chronographing shot loads is misleading because of the shadowing effect of the wad, the load chronos much slower as the machine reads the leading edge plus the wad that is slowing down as soon as it leaves the muzzle. I go by manufacturers data and field performance. If I can find an old pattern I will post it, but I have something else that shows results better!!!

[kent]

Interesting, i only pattern steel loads then try them on quarry. Never been a worshiper of speed as i have yet to find any tangible gain in 150 fps in anything from any firearm as regards terminal effect, yet knowing your 150 fps slower can effect you mentally. Have shot with a guy who uses steel 7's and within range limitations it cerrtainly kills duck up to the size of mallard when the charge is placed into the head and neck over the deeks. Personally i get on with bigger shot normally English 3's for duck, 2's for all comers (within specific limitations of range and placement) and BB or BBB for geese. I certainly agree Steel kills very well when its in the right spot (i learned this shooting crows with some impressive lead 5's, only when i picked up the empties they were steel 5's i picked up in error from the cartridge cuboard at home )

[UK fowler]

bit of a low blow there timothy if you check again I said if you had enough spare to make it worth the time i would send you some $ never once said I would let you foot the bill

and yes some pattern pics would be good

[coyotemaster]

bit of a low blow there timothy if you check again I said if you had enough spare to make it worth the time i would send you some $ never once said I would let you foot the bill

and yes some pattern pics would be good

 

Quite right Nick I will PM you to sort it out

 

I would have to take the board back to the range, laser out the 65 yards, shoot, use an eraser an ink pad to show pellet strikes and then I am relatively sure someone would say sure probably shot that one at 45 yds. so it is a no win with doubters. Check the goose bands they tell more than paper does.