njc110381 Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 The Hornet steps in when you don't need to use 100 rounds per night and you want more confidence on Foxes than you can have in a rimfire. It suits my needs well and I think it suits the needs of the average sprorting shooter very well too. When I go out I shoot a few bunnies, ten maybe if I see them. I certainly don't shoot hundreds. At the same time if I see a Fox at 100 yards I can take it - I wouldn't put that faith in a rimfire any more as they've let me down too many times. Yes I could have a HMR and a .223, but then why bother if the Hornet will do the job of both? Yes I have a .223, but if I had to sell any of my rifles it would be the first to go. I don't really need it. People who bash the Hornet obviously don't have that multi quarry need or need to shoot Foxes at long range. Either that or they think that they need more power when really they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 bicykillgaz, am in the same situation as you ! Am thinking 35grn V-max for rabbit and fox when out lookign for fox to be taken around 150yards. My HMR is my Bunny gun and always will be, out for buunys it would be the HMR all night long and if out looking for fox but not wanting to waste a trip out looking for charles by bagging a few bunnys its going to be the Hornet ! I much preffer the heavy stuff, wind and drop are way less. V-max only gains energy over the HMR other figures are about equal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Let me get this right. The hornet is a old round, that has been superseded by more modern offerings. It cannot take deer legally, unlike other .22CFs such as a .223. It is very discerning where ammo is concerned, and often needs to be hand-loaded to be accurate. Whereas say a .223 has readily available shop ammo which is accurate and cheap. It would appear to be used as a long range varmint round, so why not use a .204 as they are fast and flat shooting and can take foxes at extended ranges. What advantage has the Hornet got ??? ??? Why not go .223 be Deer legal and have long range vermin/fox capability and the easily available cheap factory rounds Your getting it all wrong mate, look at what the users are saying. Mine will go under an inch at 225yds with RWS factory 46grn TMS rounds. in what way is that factory round lacking over a .223? Sure the .204 is better at range but the .243 is better again. If your foxes are shot under 200 all that is irrelivent. .22 hornet is not a long range varmint round it just out ranges and outpowers all the rimfires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet 6 Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hornet gets my vote as go to gun for rabbits and fox. I have a .223 as well which is rarely used, also a .22lr, I had an HMR, not fox legal round these parts, and not realy suitable anyway. The one thing the Hornet has going for it over the HMR is cost to use, if you re-load, easily moderated and very mild re-coil. In reasonably conditions the Hornet will relibaly take a fox at 170 ish yards, and if pushed still does the job to just over 220 yards. Neil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatsworth Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Thank you people i had a feeling this would put a shot across the bows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Let me get this right. The hornet is a old round, that has been superseded by more modern offerings. It cannot take deer legally, unlike other .22CFs such as a .223. It is very discerning where ammo is concerned, and often needs to be hand-loaded to be accurate. Whereas say a .223 has readily available shop ammo which is accurate and cheap. It would appear to be used as a long range varmint round, so why not use a .204 as they are fast and flat shooting and can take foxes at extended ranges. What advantage has the Hornet got ??? ??? Why not go .223 be Deer legal and have long range vermin/fox capability and the easily available cheap factory rounds Until such time as the OP says what he wants the Hornet for and as has already been said, we can only talk in general terms. You are suggesting he has 223 because it's deer legal in addition to being ideal for fox. For that purpose, you are offering more restraint on his activities than the Hornet Brigade are in recommending the Hornet as suitable for fox - in fact if the, or any, OP was a complete novice you may just be inciting him to break the law. Think about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatsworth Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 i can assure you all i am no novice in the field "When I go out I shoot a few bunnies, ten maybe if I see them. I certainly don't shoot hundreds. At the same time if I see a Fox at 100 yards I can take it - I wouldn't put that faith in a rimfire any more as they've let me down too many times".was what i was looking for Thanks Chatworth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 i'm in a similar situation to the op, i want a shortish range foxing gun 150-200 max, but as i shoot on foot i also want something i can take the odd rabbit with without breaking the bank if the fox i'm looking for doesn't show up, i also want to try my hand at reloading and have been told the hornet is cheap and simple to reload. my land is passed for .222 already but i am put off by the availibility of factory rounds and i don't really need the extra grunt. so for my the hornet sound perfect from the info i've been given by some helpful members. From your figures of 150-200 and then salop sniper's mention of 35 gr V Max, put together it's not an ideal fox round. To drop a fox on the spot (barring all the endless possibilities of failing to do so), at night with the lamp then somewhere about 150 is the absolute max. Arguably less. A 35gr bullet shoots better with powders different to Lil'Gun. Step up to 40, 45 and 50 (if you can) with Lil'Gun and things change. It is this development that is giving this so called obsolete calibre a new lease of life. Is it on this thread that Kent mentions 2900 ft/sec with his 45gr? Without being near the top end of the charge, with 50gr I'm still delivering 450 ft/lbs at 200 yards. Consequently, it can be seen that the Hornet truly is a fox calibre, just not at some of the ranges often quoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 From your figures of 150-200 and then salop sniper's mention of 35 gr V Max, put together it's not an ideal fox round. To drop a fox on the spot (barring all the endless possibilities of failing to do so), at night with the lamp then somewhere about 150 is the absolute max. Arguably less. A 35gr bullet shoots better with powders different to Lil'Gun. Step up to 40, 45 and 50 (if you can) with Lil'Gun and things change. It is this development that is giving this so called obsolete calibre a new lease of life. Is it on this thread that Kent mentions 2900 ft/sec with his 45gr? Without being near the top end of the charge, with 50gr I'm still delivering 450 ft/lbs at 200 yards. Consequently, it can be seen that the Hornet truly is a fox calibre, just not at some of the ranges often quoted. hi wymberley, 450 ft/lbs at 200yrds sounds impressive for something that a lot of people don't consider a 'proper' fox round. just as a side note what sort of ammo allowance can you buy/hold with the hornet so i know a rough amount to put down for. gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Until such time as the OP says what he wants the Hornet for and as has already been said, we can only talk in general terms. You are suggesting he has 223 because it's deer legal in addition to being ideal for fox. For that purpose, you are offering more restraint on his activities than the Hornet Brigade are in recommending the Hornet as suitable for fox - in fact if the, or any, OP was a complete novice you may just be inciting him to break the law. Think about it! How/Why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) hi wymberley, 450 ft/lbs at 200yrds sounds impressive for something that a lot of people don't consider a 'proper' fox round. just as a side note what sort of ammo allowance can you buy/hold with the hornet so i know a rough amount to put down for. gary Phew! Just a suggestion, buy 200, keep 300 if your RFD is close and if not, try to up the anti to 300/450. You can explain away the round figure buy quantity if you reload due to the 100 per box. Of course, you will be loading two different bullet weights, one for rabbit and one for fox WON'T YOU? Cheers, Phil PS Just for info; 1 in 14 twist handles the 50gr Hornady which has a half decent BC unlike many of the traditional Hornet bullets and it is accurate which always remains the most critical aspect. Edited February 13, 2012 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 How/Why Let's just say that I still have the 223. I cannot shoot deer because we do not have any muntjac or water deer down here. We do have roe, but down here is not up there. Does that help, bearing in mind you aren't up there either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Let's just say that I still have the 223. I cannot shoot deer because we do not have any muntjac or water deer down here. We do have roe, but down here is not up there. Does that help, bearing in mind you aren't up there either? OK in other words .22 CFs are only Legal for Muntjac or CWD. IS THAT OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 OK in other words .22 CFs are only Legal for Muntjac or CWD. IS THAT OK? Yep, now you have it - for England - 243 for roe and up. Scotland (up there) is different. That's the basics but there other restraints. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointer Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hi Wymberley, did you manage to give that big old dog fox the good news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hi Wymberley, did you manage to give that big old dog fox the good news? No , damn it. Much of the ground is totally waterlogged and the owner has had to move her horses too close to where I need to be. Still, the wait will whett my appetite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointer Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 No , damn it. Much of the ground is totally waterlogged and the owner has had to move her horses too close to where I need to be. Still, the wait will whett my appetite! I'm sure you will bag it, so long as you use a 'proper fox round' from a proper fox gun'........happy hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Phew! Just a suggestion, buy 200, keep 300 if your RFD is close and if not, try to up the anti to 300/450. You can explain away the round figure buy quantity if you reload due to the 100 per box. Of course, you will be loading two different bullet weights, one for rabbit and one for fox WON'T YOU? Cheers, Phil PS Just for info; 1 in 14 twist handles the 50gr Hornady which has a half decent BC unlike many of the traditional Hornet bullets and it is accurate which always remains the most critical aspect. just been looking what cz have to offer in .22 hornet and they all seem to be 1 i 16 twists, what sort of weight does that limit me too? 40,45 or could i still use 50gr? and what sort of performances would them weights offer with lil'gun? gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 just been looking what cz have to offer in .22 hornet and they all seem to be 1 i 16 twists, what sort of weight does that limit me too? 40,45 or could i still use 50gr? and what sort of performances would them weights offer with lil'gun? gary Ok, ready for this? CZ use the correct twist for the hornet as the barrel being chamber cut at the same time as the bore (this ensures great consentricity which is esential for the best out of a hornet) Ruger on the other cut the chamber into an exising .22 cf blank (hence the twist) misalighnment is quite likely and yes it effects this case more than a bottle necked chambering like .223. The CZ tube will stabilise all hornet specific rounds which range 35-46 grns. Longer rounds like the 50's etc can offer higher BC but will often as not exceed SAMI spec on col. creating issues with magazine operation etc. also std .22 rounds designed for 22-250 in mind might not give the terminal perforance required due to the slower speeds on impact, likewise Hornet 45's can break apart in flight if shot too fast from a 22-250, 22 swift etc. I sort of have a hankering after a Hornet built with a very short stiff barrel target grade barrel and a falling block target action, ok single shot but cases are easier to hang onto at night this way and one shot is all it should take anyway. heavilly moderated yet still basically pretty much a carbine in o/a gun length with perfect balance for shooting off hand without aids at any time night or day. I dont know if this gun will ever get built but it would give a lot of ground to experiment with std .22 c/fire bullets and might make my ultimate lamping or even NV gun for all quarry (rabbit to fox). For now i will stick to the magazine fed CZ though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 So cz is definitely the way to go with the hornet then, i was looking at the 527 with the iron sights on as with it been mainly fox and the odd rabbit i can live without a mod. It gives me the option to use the iron sights till i can afford something nice to sit on top. This may be a daft question but what sort of life expectancy should i expect on the barrel? i've read people speaking about 22.250 barrels 'burning out' quicker than a .223, i'm not gonna be trying to get stupidly high power loads i want one that will comfortably take fox at 150+ and probably one or two for rabbits close/long range so it's going to have a reasonably soft life. Am i looking at tens of thousands or just thousands? A chap i shoot for had a single shot brno .222 which broke with a lever like a shotgun, that was a cracking little gun i was going to put in for one and have it off him but decided against it in the end as i didn't really want a .222 i just liked the simplicity of it. Thanks for all the info mate, if i get passed i'll pm for info on loads if that's ok. At Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Many thousands of rounds would be my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 This is going to make a certain alpha numeric coded member jump for joy: Yep, the CZ is a good choice, still not mine for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality/performance of the CZ. It has one added advantage I believe. Check with other owners, but I think I'm right in saying that the magazine is receptive to a little "fettling" - something to do with a plastic insert - which permits an increase in COL use. Barrel life, do you have or going to have a son?........he may want a decent rifle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 you will not do a hornet barrel in by shooting it, indeed is hard to even get the barrel warm to the touch. 10,000, 20,000. 30,000 ? a lot more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Cheers for clearing that up, i was debating on buying secondhand if i could find one, so i could afford more kit from the start. i would rather buy new when comes to a rifle but it would mean waiting a couple of months to afford the reloading kit. I've seen the hand loading kits on the bay for about £50-60 posted from oz, think I'll go down that route. Thanks for the advice guys its appreciated, now I've just got to fill out the form and wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatsworth Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Thanks to all that replied bicykillgaz you seem to be in the same position as i am may be we can compare notes later in the year? Best regards Chatsworth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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