DSC 2 in a weekend

[Vipa]

Anyone done this or have any knowledge/info??

[Ackley]

Anyone done this or have any knowledge/info??

Rob Akin who uses Chatworth does it all in one day,he usually stands at the gamefairs,I aint seen him for a while but can get you a number I think it works out about £500 but not quote me on that

[Vipa]

Please Pete, that would be great

[kent]

Don't be fooled you have to meet the MINIMUM witnessed kills but there can be a little more to it than that. There have been people told to gain extra evidence and telephone questioning is not unknown. When i did mine i was interviewed by the old head guy and had to name and descibe the lymphatic system from one end to the other, describe how best to locate each and name them, i was furthermore put in a difficult stalking situation, which ended with the correct way to finish a deer with the knife. Level 2 in a weekend? i doubt that can be garanteed as it would be out of the witnesses hands. Three witnessed kills on stupid deer on overstocked land is no issue though this is not level 2 criteria on its own- or at least it wasn't when i undertook it

[Vipa]

Don't be fooled you have to meet the MINIMUM witnessed kills but there can be a little more to it than that. There have been people told to gain extra evidence and telephone questioning is not unknown. When i did mine i was interviewed by the old head guy and had to name and descibe the lymphatic system from one end to the other, describe how best to locate each and name them, i was furthermore put in a difficult stalking situation, which ended with the correct way to finish a deer with the knife. Level 2 in a weekend? i doubt that can be garanteed as it would be out of the witnesses hands. Three witnessed kills on stupid deer on overstocked land is no issue though this is not level 2 criteria on its own- or at least it wasn't when i undertook it

 

 

The problem is my land is a 4 hour drive away, I tend to go up on my own every other month or so and quite often camp for a few days whilst I'm up there.. There is absolutely no guarantee of seeing deer and in fact I have only seen 4 in the last year, 1 at 640 yards and 3 together, one of which I harvested.

 

Getting an AW would be difficult, more often than not abortive and, the way things are going, would probably take more than 3 years to 'bring all the pieces of the jigsaw together!)

 

DSC 2, whilst having some stalking elements is more about what happens once you have shot the deer, therefore 3 deer in a weekend is not an issue if the AW can guarantee putting 3 deer in front of you.

 

At the end of the day, as long as you do it right on three seperate occasions and show you have the requisite knowledge, does it really matter if you do it in a decade or an afternoon?

Edited February 17, 2012 by Vipa

[Ackley]

Don't be fooled you have to meet the MINIMUM witnessed kills but there can be a little more to it than that. There have been people told to gain extra evidence and telephone questioning is not unknown. When i did mine i was interviewed by the old head guy and had to name and descibe the lymphatic system from one end to the other, describe how best to locate each and name them, i was furthermore put in a difficult stalking situation, which ended with the correct way to finish a deer with the knife. Level 2 in a weekend? i doubt that can be garanteed as it would be out of the witnesses hands. Three witnessed kills on stupid deer on overstocked land is no issue though this is not level 2 criteria on its own- or at least it wasn't when i undertook it

a lot of level 2s are done in a park so killing 3 deer in a day or a weekend isnt very hard to do.

[scolopax]

I think they have now stopped accrediting the deer park DSC2 in a day deal ? Maybe wrong and it certainly used to be possible, I know of a few who did it at Donnington in years gone past.

 

Can't see the problem with doing it over a weekend, especially if it was possible to use two different AW for the culls.

[apache]

Jelen Deer offer it. Make up the numbers with park culls if the stalking unsuccessful. I have considered it myself.

 

http://www.jelendeer.com/dsc-level-2/

[Ackley]

I think they have now stopped accrediting the deer park DSC2 in a day deal ? Maybe wrong and it certainly used to be possible, I know of a few who did it at Donnington in years gone past.

 

Can't see the problem with doing it over a weekend, especially if it was possible to use two different AW for the culls.

your wrong mate,even if they wasnt in a park havnt you shot 3 deer in 1 day before

[kdubya]

Now you may think I am being contentious? but I always thought the purpose of the DSC2 was for you to consolidate your DSC1 by putting together a portfolio proving that you have used your previously learned skill's? by demonstration of your knowledge and ability out in the field,this to me means time effort and learning about DEER, this when gained is witnessed by an AW who would sign your portfolio up for you.

 

So to me to shoot 3 deer in a day in a deer park seems nothing more than paying to let someone set you up with 3 targets ( I have heard of them being shot whilst following a feed cart or shot at a feed station using the (guide's )shoulder as a gun rest!! to me it's just a little more effort than going into Saintsbury's and buying a little " pre prepared" venison, or getting an A level over the internet!!

 

I have my DSC1 I have only shot 9 deer (2 in 5 mins once )but I believe my knowledge of deer shooting would be and should be way below any so-called "expert" deer shooting qualification which surely is the purpose of DSC2 or is it really just about money and collecting bits of paper:hmm:

 

KW

[Ackley]

Now you may think I am being contentious? but I always thought the purpose of the DSC2 was for you to consolidate your DSC1 by putting together a portfolio proving that you have used your previously learned skill's? by demonstration of your knowledge and ability out in the field,this to me means time effort and learning about DEER, this when gained is witnessed by an AW who would sign your portfolio up for you.

 

So to me to shoot 3 deer in a day in a deer park seems nothing more than paying to let someone set you up with 3 targets ( I have heard of them being shot whilst following a feed cart or shot at a feed station using the (guide's )shoulder as a gun rest!! to me it's just a little more effort than going into Saintsbury's and buying a little " pre prepared" venison, or getting an A level over the internet!!

 

I have my DSC1 I have only shot 9 deer (2 in 5 mins once )but I believe my knowledge of deer shooting would be and should be way below any so-called "expert" deer shooting qualification which surely is the purpose of DSC2 or is it really just about money and collecting bits of paper:hmm:

 

KW

 

its the same as when you did your driving test,you start learning when you have passed,no different to level 2,I would like to know how many level 2 holders do the job "by the book" just like driving your car how many follows the highway code to the letter

if you shoot 3 deer in a park or 3 in a forest the end result is the same "a pass" only difference is one will take a long time and alot of money to do,espeically if you have to keep paying for days out

the choice is yours

[Vipa]

Now you may think I am being contentious? but I always thought the purpose of the DSC2 was for you to consolidate your DSC1 by putting together a portfolio proving that you have used your previously learned skill's? by demonstration of your knowledge and ability out in the field,this to me means time effort and learning about DEER, this when gained is witnessed by an AW who would sign your portfolio up for you.

 

So to me to shoot 3 deer in a day in a deer park seems nothing more than paying to let someone set you up with 3 targets ( I have heard of them being shot whilst following a feed cart or shot at a feed station using the (guide's )shoulder as a gun rest!! to me it's just a little more effort than going into Saintsbury's and buying a little " pre prepared" venison, or getting an A level over the internet!!

 

I have my DSC1 I have only shot 9 deer (2 in 5 mins once )but I believe my knowledge of deer shooting would be and should be way below any so-called "expert" deer shooting qualification which surely is the purpose of DSC2 or is it really just about money and collecting bits of paper:hmm:

 

KW

 

Dsc 2 doesn't make you an expert it is just the practical testing side of the DMQ qualification. The blog on Jelen says it all really, DSC 2 Is fundamentally flawed. It is logistically VERY difficult to stalk 3 deer and to pull all the pieces together with AWs, I am Only too aware that one should not expect to see a deer on every outing.. In fact over the last 2 years I have spent £1,600 on professional stalkers who haven't presented me with any deer!!!

 

So, I want my DSC 2 as doors will be opened once I have it! I feel I am competent enough to complete my portfolio (I'm not claiming to be an expert but that's not what this is about)

 

Think of DMQ like a driving test... You have the theory part (DSC1,) the practical part (DSC2) and, if you pass both, you are deemed competent to drive safely alone and to go off to develop you skills. Think of expert status as someone with advanced driver status or approved witness status.

 

I certainly have no intention of spending more thousands of pounds and years paying for stalks with AWs with no success to get a practical qualification that can be done in a short space of time with the right infrastructure in place.

 

I was talking to a very good friend last night who is also an AW.. He pointed out that 2 of the 3 stages being observed per beast can be witnessed & signed off without ever pulling the trigger! The 3rd, post shot stage can be carried out on beasts not necessarily shot by you!

Edited February 18, 2012 by Vipa

[kdubya]

its the same as when you did your driving test,you start learning when you have passed,no different to level 2,I would like to know how many level 2 holders do the job "by the book" just like driving your car how many follows the highway code to the letter

if you shoot 3 deer in a park or 3 in a forest the end result is the same "a pass" only difference is one will take a long time and alot of money to do,espeically if you have to keep paying for days out

the choice is yours

 

so it really is all about money then analogy with driving does not really fit, once I have passed adriving test, I dont need another level.

 

KW

Edited February 18, 2012 by kdubya

[scimitar]

Using the driving test analogy could you not take a few stalks to get experience then when you feel you are confident do the dsc2 in a weekend. Just like taking driving lessons then your test. I did a couple of carcass handling courses just to get a bit of experience.

[Vipa]

so it really is all about money then analogy with driving does not really fit, once I have passed adriving test, I dont need another level.

 

KW

 

 

You missunderstand... the qualification you are trying to gain is what used to be the DMQ (Deer Management Qualification,) the DMQ is made up of a theory part and a practical part, technically DSC 1 is not a qualification in it's own right, it is merely the theory part of the DMQ. The Driving Test is made up of both a theory part and a Practical Part, one on it'a own does not get you your licence. Whilst Deer stalking is not licenced (yet) the effects can be seen on FC leases, in most cases, a member who only has DSC1 will not be allowed to stalk unacompanied.

 

Using the driving test analogy could you not take a few stalks to get experience then when you feel you are confident do the dsc2 in a weekend. Just like taking driving lessons then your test. I did a couple of carcass handling courses just to get a bit of experience.

 

That's effectively what you are doing... I passed my DSC1 2 years ago, it's about time I finished it off and goy my DSC2.

 

Remember the reason you are given 3 years to get the portfolio complete isn't because they expect you to spend 3 years gaining more and more experience etc.. it's because of the logistical difficulties of actually getting 3 successful witnessed stalks.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Vipa

[Ackley]

so it really is all about money then analogy with driving does not really fit, once I have passed adriving test, I dont need another level.

 

KW

well thats a matter of opinion over the money side of it,but the driving test ananlogy fits the bill as you can do a weeks intensive test and pass what is required then when you have passed you really learn how to drive,as I said just like passing level 2

again as I said "who actually sticks to what you had to do to pass level 2" I know I dont,neither do i stick to the speed limit

once you have passed level 2 you dont need to do another test,just like your driving test

just becsue someone has passed level 2 dosent make them a better stalker just like driving

Edited February 18, 2012 by Ackley

[apache]

Some of the views over the DMQ qualification system amuse me. Fundamentally it doesn't matter if you spend thousands of pounds and a hundred hours stalking to get your level 2 or if you go along and do it in 2 days. Jelen do not guarantee a pass, you still have to achieve the standard. I made some enquiries into this and you will do 3 (or possibly 4) stalks to achieve the stalking requirements. Now if you are unsuccessful then park (cull) deer are shot to allow you to complete the carcase handling parts.

 

I self studied for the DSC1 and found it very easy. Doesn't make my certificate worth any more or less than someone who spent 4 days on a course. My biggest restriction is free time.

[kent]

I wish candidates would get into thier heads it aint about getting three kills with gralochs witnessed. Sure if you fill the criterea on three sucessfull stalks you can submit, but expect to be questioned and likewise your AW can be. I am not 100% but i think i submitted about 5 witnessed kills, 3 of which met the criterea start to finish, but was heavily questioned and tested of my knoledge on the phone. As for acredited witnesses a lot were discredited and stuck of the list a while back (quite rightly IMO) for blagging experiance for payment. You could and i think you still can gather evidence from being witnessed by a credible witness, which might be a good way to bolster culling a few silly park deer with an AW. Do not think its three kills and Bingo i totally promise you i was put through the ringer by Mr Jagger on the phone before i was signed off

[kdubya]

I wish candidates would get into thier heads it aint about getting three kills with gralochs witnessed. Sure if you fill the criterea on three sucessfull stalks you can submit, but expect to be questioned and likewise your AW can be. I am not 100% but i think i submitted about 5 witnessed kills, 3 of which met the criterea start to finish, but was heavily questioned and tested of my knoledge on the phone. As for acredited witnesses a lot were discredited and stuck of the list a while back (quite rightly IMO) for blagging experiance for payment. You could and i think you still can gather evidence from being witnessed by a credible witness, which might be a good way to bolster culling a few silly park deer with an AW. Do not think its three kills and Bingo i totally promise you i was put through the ringer by Mr Jagger on the phone before i was signed off

 

nicely put. however it seems a bit of a lottery as to "meeting the standard" I personally know two people who gained their DSC2, the first one travelled all over the country shooting each type of deer and learned about them, spent a fortune ( did proper stalks as well for reds ) shot many deer, when he finally submitted his portfolio it was like the spanish inquisition, on the other hand the other chap (he had his DSC1 but had never shot a deer) paid to use a guide who was an AW after a few trips out some with no kill, he eventually managed to shoot three deer all of those kills IE the three and only three deer he had shot went down in his portfolio and he was granted his DSC2, so yes it can be "bingo"

brown envelopes can be obtained at any post office ask our arry

 

KW

[Vipa]

I wish candidates would get into thier heads it aint about getting three kills with gralochs witnessed. Sure if you fill the criterea on three sucessfull stalks you can submit, but expect to be questioned and likewise your AW can be. I am not 100% but i think i submitted about 5 witnessed kills, 3 of which met the criterea start to finish, but was heavily questioned and tested of my knoledge on the phone. As for acredited witnesses a lot were discredited and stuck of the list a while back (quite rightly IMO) for blagging experiance for payment. You could and i think you still can gather evidence from being witnessed by a credible witness, which might be a good way to bolster culling a few silly park deer with an AW. Do not think its three kills and Bingo i totally promise you i was put through the ringer by Mr Jagger on the phone before i was signed off

 

quite expecting to be put through the ringer both during the 3 stalks and afterwards by the assessor.... Not expecting anything to be any easier just condensed time wise.. which, with my commitments, work, family etc.. etc.. is what I need otherwise it'll never get done!

[Vipa]

nicely put. however it seems a bit of a lottery as to "meeting the standard" I personally know two people who gained their DSC2, the first one travelled all over the country shooting each type of deer and learned about them, spent a fortune ( did proper stalks as well for reds ) shot many deer, when he finally submitted his portfolio it was like the spanish inquisition, on the other hand the other chap (he had his DSC1 but had never shot a deer) paid to use a guide who was an AW after a few trips out some with no kill, he eventually managed to shoot three deer all of those kills IE the three and only three deer he had shot went down in his portfolio and he was granted his DSC2, so yes it can be "bingo"

brown envelopes can be obtained at any post office ask our arry

 

KW

 

I 'think' I know who you mean Keith BUT.... and it is a big BUT... I also seem to remember a comment from the AW that the 3 witnessed stalks were textbook perfect start to finish. At the end of the day, that is what the DSC 2 requires, there is no prerequisite for experience other than having to have succesfully gained DSC 1.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Vipa

[kent]

nicely put. however it seems a bit of a lottery as to "meeting the standard" I personally know two people who gained their DSC2, the first one travelled all over the country shooting each type of deer and learned about them, spent a fortune ( did proper stalks as well for reds ) shot many deer, when he finally submitted his portfolio it was like the spanish inquisition, on the other hand the other chap (he had his DSC1 but had never shot a deer) paid to use a guide who was an AW after a few trips out some with no kill, he eventually managed to shoot three deer all of those kills IE the three and only three deer he had shot went down in his portfolio and he was granted his DSC2, so yes it can be "bingo"

brown envelopes can be obtained at any post office ask our arry

 

KW

 

Yes "the brown envelope" thing was certainly a problem once over as with level 1. To be fair its happened in other quals also. Hence the assessor etc. is a control, Indeed my initial Assesor was booted out this is why i was finally questoned by Mr Jagger. To expand the first assesor asked no verifying questions of me and only talked about himself, then shelved my portfolio when i told him he was a fool ( i have always been known for my diplomatic tallents )

[Redgum]

I havent read all the posts so apologies if repeating other comments. I have had the same problem Vipa with the DSC2, one thing that anyone thinking about deer stalking, unless they have lots of pennies, needs to learn, deer don't give themselves up easy. If they did there would be none left. Finding them is one thing, stalking them another, stalking them with a companion ( assessor ) is another. I was lucky with the first stalk,just walked into a deer who wasnt paying attention (rare but happens). Second stalk took took three attempts and third, well so far it aint happening so have come up with a plan with accessor. You have three years to complete the DSC2 as you probably know. Each stalk can be broken down in components, my third stalk has now been marked down and I will go out with one of the accessors on an organised cull and grallock someone elses deer. Once you register you will find your appointed monitor very helpful, they are trying to find out your ability to meet the standard and understand the difficulties of the nature of deer stalking. Apparently there are courses were you can almost buy your DSC2 but is there anypoint spending that sort of money.

[cooter]

I completed my DSC1 two years ago, registered for DSC2 pretty much straight away and have only managed to complete one ICR in a lot of paid stalks since, cost so far is around £2k.

 

I was out with the Jelen team last weekend on a park cull and, even though the deer were enclosed, we still had to stalk in and the deer know what is happening so it's not as easy as some people think.

 

We were discussing DSC2 at the end of the shoot.

What came out (from Jelen them selves) is that DMQ will accept one cull in a park shoot, but they are questioning them all being done that way, especially in one day, so you have to actually stalk outside the park for the portfolio to count.

What you can do is complete the grallock in the park and then stalk into deer on another day, just declaring when you would have taken the shot.

[Redgum]

Maybe its worth looking on the list of assessors( you get it on application) and find one who works for forestry commission, some do. You could do your stalks then maybe do grallocks and larder prep on a collaborated cull were they usually hammer a few ( few to many mostly)