Ferret Master Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hello! Long story short, I've finally pulled my finger out and applied for my FAC as a co-terminus with my SGC which went in for renewal at the same time. Applied for .17HMR and a .22LR both with moderators and expanding ammo. The land I have put down should be fine and I get along with my FLO. Interview is in the not too distant future and I have a couple of questions that I would like to ask rather than drop a clanger in the interview. Doing a search has provided different answers (no surprise there ) so if answers could be restricted to first hand experience or quoting chapter and verse of law then that would be just grand. 1. Previous experience. I have shot rimfire, centrefire and Snotty's cannons at Bisley with plenty of members from here over the years and also under BASC guidance. I am an experienced shotgun and air rifle shot. Also have experience lamping with a couple of friends who know what they are doing using rimfires on many occasions. Now, do I just admit to having held the lamp or is it legal for me to shoot under their direct guidance? I understand the different interpretations of 'occupier' with regards to lending a shotgun and know that Wiltshire interpret it to be anyone with shooting permission. Is the situation the same with FAC weapons or is it a complete no no? 2. Fox. Do I mention the F word or do I just classify them as vermin in the back of my head and crack on safe in the knowledge that the BASC has said they will support anyone who shoots fox with a rimfire? Before anyone starts, I know a rimmy isn't an ideal tool for fox but under the right circumstances they work and I've witnessed this first hand. 3. Bolts. Should I keep these seperately under different lock and key. i.e In my shotgun cabinet or with the ammo? Or can they be legally left with the rifle? Replies appreciated, many thanks. FM P.S For clarification reasons incase you missed it, I'm in Wilts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 1. It's crazy but the letter of the law makes it much easier for you to use a rifle under supervision than it does a shotgun. Lamping with friends on land on which they have permission is 100% within the law (how would most deer stalker guides operate?). The BASC now have case law that the person supervising you doesn't need to be in the same room! 2. Fox - personally I wouldn't mention it. If you ask and they say no you are directly going against their advice. You could always ask if they would let you use it to dispatch close range foxes as you sometimes set snares? Maybe speak to BASC. You'll put in for a CF within 18 months. 3. Legally you can keep them in your rifle. There is no law that states they have to be kept separate. It is accepted that it may be 'best practice' to do so. I asked North Yorks and they weren't especially bothered. I keep them in the rimfires (the two look the same and don't want to mix them up) but remove from the CF as tight for space. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) Fox wise check with BASC Experience wise id be carefull. Check with BASC Use BASC its what you pay your subs for! Edited February 25, 2012 by Beretta28g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Speak to BASC firearms dept. If your a member they will tell you for sure whats legal mate Please disregard what others think it can land you in it if incorrect Shotgun experiance only realy counts for the fact you are not percived as a security risk and air rifle counts for nothing with most the nearest equivelent .22 sub has ten times more energy behind it remember. Though all areas can see things differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Fox just keep quiet, its only on here people get upset about them being vermin. Dead foxes rarely talk. I must say experience wise I said I had used others rifles under supervision and no query on it. Realistically they couldn't expect you to have experience if it was illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbit_stu Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 I have very limited experience of live fire rifles, mention the two days deer stalking and half a day supervised range time and she nearly jumped for joy saying everyone should have to spend time on a range going through safety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 1. Previous experience. I have shot rimfire, centrefire and Snotty's cannons at Bisley with plenty of members from here over the years and also under BASC guidance. I am an experienced shotgun and air rifle shot. Also have experience lamping with a couple of friends who know what they are doing using rimfires on many occasions. Now, do I just admit to having held the lamp or is it legal for me to shoot under their direct guidance? I understand the different interpretations of 'occupier' with regards to lending a shotgun and know that Wiltshire interpret it to be anyone with shooting permission. Is the situation the same with FAC weapons or is it a complete no no? Depending on what force you are with you may not be able to even get a certificate without proving first that you've been out with the calibres you've asked for to learn about using them safety. Even if they don't demand that you've been trained with them it will greatly support your application if they are happy you've been taught how to use them safely. Giving your FEO the phone number of someone you shoot with who can confirm that you have been out with them and been taught the basics should be enough. 2. Fox. Do I mention the F word or do I just classify them as vermin in the back of my head and crack on safe in the knowledge that the BASC has said they will support anyone who shoots fox with a rimfire? Before anyone starts, I know a rimmy isn't an ideal tool for fox but under the right circumstances they work and I've witnessed this first hand. It depends if your force allows the use of these calibres on fox, some do some don't. If they don't allow it then don't ask! If they do allow it ask so it is a condition on your certificate and it's then legal to shoot foxes with it, even if they only allow it for the .17 it's something. However if you are planning to shoot many foxes, and are going out specially for them I think you'd be better off applying for a small centrefire, there is no reason why you can't have one. A .22 hornet will be far better than a .17, and are cheap to run, maybe even a .223. That would be something to think about. You can probably add one at your interview without any difficulty, you don't even need to buy one but the option is there, it's probably a good idea if you're shooting many. 3. Bolts. Should I keep these seperately under different lock and key. i.e In my shotgun cabinet or with the ammo? Or can they be legally left with the rifle? It's up to you. There is no requirement on keeping them separate, only the ammo has to be locked away elsewhere. You could find some forces will like them separate but it's up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) Hi Ferretmaster It will be ok to mention fox as Wilts classify fox as vermin i asked because i was going shooting out of county so i asked them to specifically put fox on my .22 rimfire which they did no problems Geordie Edited February 25, 2012 by geordieh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2-dead-in-the-air Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 What you need to do is put on the form the following: 22 fac air rifle 17hmr for vermin control, 22LR ( they dont like these but put it on if you want ) 222 for fox 243 for deer Dont wory you can have them all listed and then buy the one you need, its a lot easyer this way than paying again to list a different caliber. They will put conditions on the 243 about being acompaned etc. The Wilts FAO is a a nice bloke. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Thank-you very much for your input chaps. I shall let you know the outcome. What you need to do is put on the form the following: 22 fac air rifle 17hmr for vermin control, 22LR ( they dont like these but put it on if you want ) 222 for fox 243 for deer Dont wory you can have them all listed and then buy the one you need, its a lot easyer this way than paying again to list a different caliber. They will put conditions on the 243 about being acompaned etc. The Wilts FAO is a a nice bloke. Good luck Any particular reason they aren't a fan of the .22LR? Or is it just the prone to ricochet arguement? FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2-dead-in-the-air Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Thank-you very much for your input chaps. I shall let you know the outcome. Any particular reason they aren't a fan of the .22LR? Or is it just the prone to ricochet arguement? FM Yes, ricochet.... but put it on a see what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 FAC granted. Interview went smoothly and a good time was had by all. .17HMR will have fox next to it and fortunately there were no queries regarding the inclusion of the .22LR. Just waiting to sort a cabinet with the one and only Paul Hart now and then I'll be spending money that as a poor student I don't have. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning GTS Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 FAC granted. Interview went smoothly and a good time was had by all. .17HMR will have fox next to it and fortunately there were no queries regarding the inclusion of the .22LR. Just waiting to sort a cabinet with the one and only Paul Hart now and then I'll be spending money that as a poor student I don't have. FM Well done my phone is full of .17ed fox pictures just keep the range sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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