Ackley Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) A good friend and experienced shot showed me a good indicator of how to tell if it's you or the rifle effecting the shot - the ex-squaddies on here may be familiar with this - Get a friend to come with you to where you are shooting targets, ask a friend to cycle the bolt a few times on the rifle while you are looking away and only sometimes actually load a round and then place the rifle in a ready to fire position with the safety on. you then get yourself ready to fire the rifle and concentrate on the target and fire the shot - ask your friend to observe and see if you flinch on the shots where no round has been chambered - you'd be surprised hom much you move (and the muzzle end moves!) with a flinch in anticipation of recoil.... You will now try to control this and eventually relax... Regards, gixer thats the best advice I have ever seen you post,well done Edited March 23, 2012 by Ackley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 A good friend and experienced shot showed me a good indicator of how to tell if it's you or the rifle effecting the shot - the ex-squaddies on here may be familiar with this - Get a friend to come with you to where you are shooting targets, ask a friend to cycle the bolt a few times on the rifle while you are looking away and only sometimes actually load a round and then place the rifle in a ready to fire position with the safety on. you then get yourself ready to fire the rifle and concentrate on the target and fire the shot - ask your friend to observe and see if you flinch on the shots where no round has been chambered - you'd be surprised hom much you move (and the muzzle end moves!) with a flinch in anticipation of recoil.... You will now try to control this and eventually relax... Regards, gixer This was a regular pistol coaching trick - If you think you see a bit of a twitch with a rifle you should see it when only 5 rounds are loaded into a .357 or .44 mag when shot with one hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratts Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 What a great idea defo gonna try that with my buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 In answer to another post I wrote this some months ago: About sixty years ago my mentor taught me - Rabbit - Ping-pong ball Fox - tennis ball Deer (muntjac and chinese water deer hadn't been invented then)- Football That will cope with most heart or head shots. If you cannot guarantee the shot with your weapon, in the conditions you have got, at the range you are looking at - THEN DON'T TAKE THE SHOT! I still stand by this. The range is not important nor the pinpoint accuracy. It is can you hit what you are shooting at well enough to ensure a clean kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR1960 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 In answer to another post I wrote this some months ago: About sixty years ago my mentor taught me - Rabbit - Ping-pong ball Fox - tennis ball Deer (muntjac and chinese water deer hadn't been invented then)- Football That will cope with most heart or head shots. If you cannot guarantee the shot with your weapon, in the conditions you have got, at the range you are looking at - THEN DON'T TAKE THE SHOT! I still stand by this. The range is not important nor the pinpoint accuracy. It is can you hit what you are shooting at well enough to ensure a clean kill. Hurray!!! Practice, practice, practice, know the ranges you can shoot the groups Grandalf has laid out at and shoot accordingly. As you get better/more experienced with your rifle increase the ranges. Don't expect to be striking matches at 200 yards and get out and enjoy your shooting..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think getting out in the field and experiencing kills is good even for a real newbie. With a few basic rules you will get by fine... 1. You don't have to take a shot just because your quarry is in your sights. If you're not confident or are unhappy about something then leave it. 2. Your group doesn't have to be small. All it does is tell you how far away you can shoot things. If your group is 2" at 100 yards, don't shoot at a Foxes head at 200. On the other hand you can easily take a head shot at under 100 and a body shot at 150. Same counts for Deer although their heads tend not to keep still so I would avoid head shots until you learn more about their habits. My combi gun with open sights struggled to group 4" at 100 yards until I scoped it, yet I have shot more Deer with that gun than anything else! I just limited my shots to under 75 yards and always aimed at the heart/lung area. I haven't lost a Deer to that gun yet. 3. Not everything you're told on PW is true! I'd shoot another group to check it's in the same sort of area so you know your limits. Then get out there and whack some animals. Keep the range close and keep the above points in mind. You're no more likely to wound anything than someone who can shoot bullet on bullet at 200 yards as long as you stay calm and stay within your limits. Making your first kill at close range will help take away the "Buck fever" from that longer shot that you'll think you can take once the rifle shoots great on paper. When that shot comes it's your mindset that will let you down rather than the rifle so the more prepared you are for it the better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think getting out in the field and experiencing kills is good even for a real newbie. With a few basic rules you will get by fine... 1. You don't have to take a shot just because your quarry is in your sights. If you're not confident or are unhappy about something then leave it. 2. Your group doesn't have to be small. All it does is tell you how far away you can shoot things. If your group is 2" at 100 yards, don't shoot at a Foxes head at 200. On the other hand you can easily take a head shot at under 100 and a body shot at 150. Same counts for Deer although their heads tend not to keep still so I would avoid head shots until you learn more about their habits. My combi gun with open sights struggled to group 4" at 100 yards until I scoped it, yet I have shot more Deer with that gun than anything else! I just limited my shots to under 75 yards and always aimed at the heart/lung area. I haven't lost a Deer to that gun yet. 3. Not everything you're told on PW is true! I'd shoot another group to check it's in the same sort of area so you know your limits. Then get out there and whack some animals. Keep the range close and keep the above points in mind. You're no more likely to wound anything than someone who can shoot bullet on bullet at 200 yards as long as you stay calm and stay within your limits. Making your first kill at close range will help take away the "Buck fever" from that longer shot that you'll think you can take once the rifle shoots great on paper. When that shot comes it's your mindset that will let you down rather than the rifle so the more prepared you are for it the better! Well said........ TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Friday evening - 1045pm - been out foxing since dusk. Patchy fog - thick in places - getting worse so we packed up. Saw three Charlies. One ran as soon as the lamp went on. Two I didn't shoot at because there was excessive glare in the scope giving a very poor picture. Also couldn't see area behind - dead flat around here - rarely a proper backstop. So with two foxes at 100yds I never had a shot. That's foxing - Not getting half inch groups on a sheet of paper. There's always tomorrow - now for a glass of something warm and cuddly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Friday evening - 1045pm - been out foxing since dusk. Patchy fog - thick in places - getting worse so we packed up. Saw three Charlies. One ran as soon as the lamp went on. Two I didn't shoot at because there was excessive glare in the scope giving a very poor picture. Also couldn't see area behind - dead flat around here - rarely a proper backstop. So with two foxes at 100yds I never had a shot. That's foxing - Not getting half inch groups on a sheet of paper. There's always tomorrow - now for a glass of something warm and cuddly... arrived at my mates estate at 2pm,went long range vermin shooting out to 500 yards after went to sit for a deer at dusk but the fog rolled in from the east coast so couldnt really ID for a shot so time to pack up and go for a ******,watch a little TV then went out rat bashing with the semi autos on the back of the bike as visibilty was ok up to 50 yards got back home 1 am and saw a fox sneeking through my hedge,probably the one that ****s in my garden and my pups rolls in it now thats having a lot of fun and still beinmg able to produce sub 1/2 groups on paper,time now for bed. Edited March 24, 2012 by Ackley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 I was waiting for this.... If you are consistently shooting the group shown at 100yards it'll kill a fox all day long. The group size will tighten up with practice but that group (if it's around that every time) would be accepted by most estates I know of AND in actual fact would get you you DSC 1 too all day long. It will improve over time, you know where your bullet is going by knowing you have a good backstop an being able to see what is around/behind the target - unlike people who shoot under a lamp at 500-600 yards as the beam will never give you a full view. Most people start off shooting groups like this with centrefires and as NJC says the elevation is fine so it is probably just your prep for the shot - try not to strangle the death out of the rifle - a firm but relaxed grip is fine, and try to watch for the round hitting the target as you will find it helps you stop flinching and stops you worrying about recoil. Regards, Gixer have to agree with Gixer, get out and gain some experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 arrived at my mates estate at 2pm,went long range vermin shooting out to 500 yards after went to sit for a deer at dusk but the fog rolled in from the east coast so couldnt really ID for a shot so time to pack up and go for a ******,watch a little TV then went out rat bashing with the semi autos on the back of the bike as visibilty was ok up to 50 yards got back home 1 am and saw a fox sneeking through my hedge,probably the one that ****s in my garden and my pups rolls in it now thats having a lot of fun and still beinmg able to produce sub 1/2 groups on paper,time now for bed. Says it all really... Groups better than 1.5 MOA are swell to brag about online, but irrelevant in the field. Accuracy beyond the practical limit is simply unnecessary. No one is justified in taking shots longer than 400 yards with any hunting rifle or cartridge. Sub-MOA rifles are nice, but irrelevant to the hunter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Says it all really... Groups better than 1.5 MOA are swell to brag about online, but irrelevant in the field. Accuracy beyond the practical limit is simply unnecessary. No one is justified in taking shots longer than 400 yards with any hunting rifle or cartridge. Sub-MOA rifles are nice, but irrelevant to the hunter. says nothing apart from I had a great time unlike some who constantly sit bickering on there PC looking for argumnets that just arnt there Gixer you fail,to grasp "accuracy kills" you or I, well I owe it to what we are shooting at to place a bullet in the vitals. accuracy in the field is no diiferent to accuracy on paper if you havnt got a stable rest you dont take the shot,well responsable shooters wont. what is a "practical limit" ?? I think I started a thread on "whast your comfort zone" a while ago and 99% agreed "its what your confident with" so Gixer just becasue you not confident at 400 yards doesnt make it wrong for someone who is. the bench mark for a hunting rifle is 1 MOA or under for lets say "practical limits" so anything over that needs work and I wouldnt take into the field,but thats me. you seem to be very "hung up" on people who can shoot beyond "your confort zone" or is it you just dont understand what a modern firearm with taylored home loads can do. your getting so boring with your little digs Iam sure if i said black was black you wopuld say it wasnt instead of ruining a thread like the loads of posts thats been already removed which were all probably a dig at me,why dont you add something constructive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) I'll decide on my comfort zone thanks And I'm pretty sure you hold the record for closed threads on here mate - because you "spout" constantly...The same reason you were banned from other forums Most added to this thread and said (in general terms) that the grouping was fine for starting out - you of course had to say it wasn't.... As for being argumentative - I copy a quote from a respected shooting expert (also one that you quote - but only when it suits you :rolleyes) and you say it says nothing??? I think it's obvious you have the problem, not I.... And there were no digs at you so again, get over yourself.... Sorry to the OP for going off topic. Edited March 24, 2012 by gixer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) I'll decide on my comfort zone thanks And I'm pretty sure you hold the record for closed threads on here mate - because you "spout" constantly...The same reason you were banned from other forums Most added to this thread and said (in general terms) that the grouping was fine for starting out - you of course had to say it wasn't.... As for being argumentative - I copy a quote from a respected shooting expert (also one that you quote - but only when it suits you :rolleyes) and you say it says nothing??? I think it's obvious you have the problem, not I.... And there were no digs at you so again, get over yourself.... Sorry to the OP for going off topic. yes you should be sorry,now grow up you should go and read my first post again,but very carefully instead of flyingf into a rage to try and pick holes that just isnt there Edited March 24, 2012 by Ackley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Flying into a rage? :lol: I don't think so....And it is you who needs to grow up mate, stop thinking its all about you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Flying into a rage? :lol: I don't think so....And it is you who needs to grow up mate, stop thinking its all about you..... turn the record over mate ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Ok, turned it over, it's now playing...."you're so vain, you probably think this post is about you, you're so vain" :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Ok, turned it over, it's now playing...."you're so vain, you probably think this post is about you, you're so vain" :lol: now thats funny,if you wasnt such a tit i think I may like you b ut you are Edited March 24, 2012 by Ackley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Awwww....did I hit a nerve? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Awwww....did I hit a nerve? :lol: sorry to disapoint you as it seems you follow me around like a bad smell to "try" and get a rise,unfortunatly Ive been around a long time to get upset by words spouted on the internet by faceless key board warriors. I actually thought you had found a sence of humour with your last comment I did find it really funny,but your getting very very boring and again ruining someone thread. well done you should get out more,its doing you no good "stalking" me,Iam flattered but your not my type anyway got to go off out shooting "again",not sat in all night thinking of something to try an upset people Edited March 24, 2012 by Ackley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remy 700 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Hi re grouping rifles have you considered a visit to calton moor range or simular underground range google it, the benifits are no wind comfortable rest and multiple ammo to try and only £10 per hour the help and advice is woth £50 imo , happy hunting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 sorry to disapoint you as it seems you follow me around like a bad smell to "try" and get a rise,unfortunatly Ive been around a long time to get upset by words spouted on the internet by faceless key board warriors. I actually thought you had found a sence of humour with your last comment I did find it really funny,but your getting very very boring and again ruining someone thread. well done you should get out more,its doing you no good "stalking" me,Iam flattered but your not my type anyway got to go off out shooting "again",not sat in all night thinking of something to try an upset people Egomania-tastic! :lol: you certainly are the thing that holds a boat still with a "W" in front..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Egomania-tastic! :lol: you certainly are the thing that holds a boat still with a "W" in front..... as usual reverting to insults,when you havnt anything else to say,typical key board warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Thought you were going out nugget? Off you toddle.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Thought you were going out nugget? Off you toddle.... been and come back weather is aweful just like your attitude I will go for a deer in the morning instead Edited March 24, 2012 by Ackley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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