Muggins. Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 sir it is you who are casting doubt on peoples character i am mearly stating the fact that as a pro guide do you think i would post films of dangerous shooting or allow/encourage it to happen?? its comments like yours which stop people being bothered to post anything good. regards john How am i casting doubt on peoples character? My post wasn`t aimed at you but the person who said neck shoot it. "its comments like yours which stop people being bothered to post anything good." So you think childish name calling does any good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muggins. Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 I am sorry muggins i have re-read your post and i got the context wrong, except my appoligies i am up at 3am these days and they are long days. regards john No problem yds, no harm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 With the hedge as a backstop? If a neck shot was not safe neither was the chest shot I would expect the stalker knew the lay of the land before the shot.When feeding the head is normally lower than the chest. My neck shooting normally takes place from fixed high seats that are probably more comfortable than some peoples houses the main one is carpeted and even has a gas fire on the wall and no I am not joking any one can rough it. Deershooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muggins. Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 I've never personally shot a deer myself never have I stalked a deer but I didn't like the fact it suffered for a minute or two after the shoot had been taken just my honest opinion That mate is a dead deer running. The internal damage is massive caused by the bullet expanding when it passes through the body. Trust me, it didn`t suffer. Even a deer with it`s heart shot out will often run and often look like they have been missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muggins. Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 If a neck shot was not safe neither was the chest shot I would expect the stalker knew the lay of the land before the shot.When feeding the head is normally lower than the chest. My neck shooting normally takes place from fixed high seats that are probably more comfortable than some peoples houses the main one is carpeted and even has a gas fire on the wall and no I am not joking any one can rough it. Deershooter "My neck shooting normally takes place from fixed high seats that are probably more comfortable than some peoples houses the main one is carpeted and even has a gas fire on the wall" Do you go home much?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Yes from May to the end of July :lol: Deershooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 honestly, its like a rabbits legs kicking out after a shot, some drop without a fuss some kick a bit, even with sure shotplacement, there are varients in so many aspects of the sport and this is one you cannot controll. Deer are bigger, you dont headshot a deer (AFAIK i dont stalk deer) and so its not unreasonable or unusual for the deer to run a little, same as you shoot a pigeon with a shotgun and some will take two good barrels and then drop after flying for another 50 yards plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart1985 Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Great shot and great videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyshooter Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) A Good shot,proper advice by a guide who know his prey, well done John keep up the good work!!!!!! regds brian Edited May 25, 2012 by happyshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Another good video In all honesty it is a little hard to watch it peg out after it had stopped running. But at the same time it wasn't going anywhere so I can see why you didn't shoot it again. Next time use a proper caliber....270 cough cough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted May 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Another good video Next time use a proper caliber....270 cough cough :yp: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 another very good video showing what deer can do even when they have been shot correctly, but i do think your comment your gun maybe able to do that is a bit bad its like saying the guys a ****ty shot and unless you have seen him shoot i dont think your comment was fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 another very good video showing what deer can do even when they have been shot correctly, but i do think your comment your gun maybe able to do that is a bit bad its like saying the guys a ****ty shot and unless you have seen him shoot i dont think your comment was fair I doubt there are many (if any) shooters who can put bullet on bullet at 120 yards off sticks after a long and arduous stalk with heart pounding and chest heaving!!!! World class biathalon competitors can't do it at much closer ranges... close but not bullet on bullet.. why would even the fittest stalker be able to at 2.5 x the range? The rifle will still be capable of doing it (possibly) when your out of shape but it's highly unlikely you will be able to... John's comment was a fair response to a willy waving post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Cracking shot, cracking video, cracking dog. Can't see the problem to be honest. Karpman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Spin Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 always keen to help. KW Once again John, a very good video and excellent shot. I often stalked with a professional photographer and deerstalker in Fife and he said he would not attempt to try and simultaneously film and guide his stalks. Multitasking at its best. It was nice to see my dear friend and old shooting partner chip in with a little advice. Keith has probably shot at more rabbits and pigeons than most people have had hot dinners! Keep up the good work both of you. Dr S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 honestly, its like a rabbits legs kicking out after a shot, some drop without a fuss some kick a bit, even with sure shotplacement, there are varients in so many aspects of the sport and this is one you cannot controll. Deer are bigger, you dont headshot a deer (AFAIK i dont stalk deer) and so its not unreasonable or unusual for the deer to run a little, same as you shoot a pigeon with a shotgun and some will take two good barrels and then drop after flying for another 50 yards plus. I do shoot Deer and if the situation merits it, I will head shoot them. I have head and necked more than I have in the boiler room. My reasoning for this is that I have once in my life been in a stalking group when a Red Stag was taken in the boiler room and off it went right into the plantations. If you have ever been involved in trying to find and then recover said beast you will know what I mean. I now make a decision before taking the shot as to what my best option would be depending on the terrain that I am in. In my life I have only ever saw one neck shot Deer run and that was only for about 20 yards the rest of the neck and head shots have dropped on the spot, no unnecessary difficult recovery. I see no problem with the shot that was taken in the film and have no problem with the decision to let it bleed out without further action from the stalker, as it was very obvious from the blood trail being left buy the beast that it was going down very soon. I would however not be leaving this type of video on YouTube for all to see as unfortunately the video does sort of lead the viewer to think that this was a new shot who needed prompting and then the length of time the beast was on the move and its final sad last stance after the shot will just be feeding the anti's what they want and the fence sitters to jump. I/we all know that it happens and there is no way of knowing what the Deer reaction to such a good shot is going to be, but I do prefer to see them drop. By all means get them up on the forums for us likeminded people to view at our leisure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) Once again John, a very good video and excellent shot. I often stalked with a professional photographer and deerstalker in Fife and he said he would not attempt to try and simultaneously film and guide his stalks. Multitasking at its best. It was nice to see my dear friend and old shooting partner chip in with a little advice. Keith has probably shot at more rabbits and pigeons than most people have had hot dinners! Keep up the good work both of you. Dr S well we all know keith can multitask, he can throw his dummy out and complain at the same time. He is a good stalker though he waits and watches for a long time before he sees his chance then pounces like a true hunter. Edited May 29, 2012 by yds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) I do shoot Deer and if the situation merits it, I will head shoot them. I too have shot deer in the head and neck, but yeer or two ago was on a contract cull in scotland for 3 days. I shot a red hind in an area I hadn't been in, on the last day. 3 days earlier one of us had shot a hind and missed another so he thought. When she trotted past me with her bottom jaw swinging my stomach churned to think she had been like it for 3 days. I took her cleanly while she was trotting at about 150m's with a good heart shot, the rem mag dropped her like a stone and ended her misery. When you see this you will think again about head shots. All the cullers were of great ability and experience. regards john Edited May 29, 2012 by yds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 I would however not be leaving this type of video on YouTube for all to see as unfortunately the video does sort of lead the viewer to think that this was a new shot who needed prompting and then the length of time the beast was on the move and its final sad last stance after the shot will just be feeding the anti's what they want and the fence sitters to jump. I/we all know that it happens and there is no way of knowing what the Deer reaction to such a good shot is going to be, but I do prefer to see them drop. By all means get them up on the forums for us likeminded people to view at our leisure. Well a large part of the questioning i have to do as an AW is about a wounded deer and how to recover it. This is a government recognied qualification so the bodies which matter are quite aware of wounded animals are part of deer stalking. This beast as you will agree was not wounded only it didn't know it should be dead. So I don't think the antis have it as ammunition. Promoting head shots is not a good route and totally against all "best practice" guidelines for wild deer. So if deer run on a little we are at least following guidelines and to fool yourself deer dont get wounded with head/neck shots is very short sighted. when it happens there is little blood to follow and the deer can run miles. It will be starvation what kills it eventually. That is why its not "best practice". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Yds, I can assure you that I am fully aware of what is published in the Deer Best Practice publication and the damage that can occur if a shot is taken badly. I am not promoting that others do as I do I am merely stating that I prefer to do either head or neck shots, by way of an answer to a comment made by a n other which was you do not shoot Deer in the head" hence the reason I quoted his comment at the start of my post and was only pointing out that I do and my reason for this. Once again I am quite aware of what AW system are and that they are part of a Government recognised body and that these bodies are aware that wounding animals is an unfortunate but possible part of Deer stalking. I believe anyone who has a basic knowledge of hunting will be fully aware of this without having to refer to Deer Best Practice. My point reference your clip is that this Deer although being well hit did run for a long distance and then stood looking around him before he went out of sight of the camera (normal situation to the stalking fraternity and indeed to those in the know but not to the general non hunting public). He was obviously stressed and this in my opinion is what the anti's and especially the people who have no knowledge of shooting (the fence sitters) are going to pick up on especially if they have access to a 45 seconds clip from shot to drop of a Deer in this situation. The fence sitters if seeing this are going to jump on the Anti's side if this type of film is easily accessible. Indeed I can assure you if I was to let my wife see it she would not like it one little bit. She loves venison but does not like the fact that an animal would suffer and her being a Doctor she would class what she could see in your clip as just that, I think that the last 10 seconds of the shot to drop part would clinch it for her. I do not fool myself that Deer cannot be wounded from head and neck shots (indeed I do not fool myself with anything) but I also know that if the shot is placed in the correct area of the neck or head they are going nowhere other than to the ground they are directly above. I am sorry that you feel you need to come on to the forum and preach your Deer best practice to me over a comment that I have made about my preferences. If I need a lecture on that I will book myself on some of those stalk days with you where at least you could do it face to face with me and we could discuss the for and against in a mature and sensible manner, privately. Come to think of it I was doing a guided stalk in Scotland a few years ago and on one of my stalks I decided that my target beast, a Red Spiker was providing me with a great safe neck shot and the guide was more than happy with me taking said shot. Then again he was not walking funny so he probably did not have his copy of Deer Best Practice shoved as far up his rectum as you do. Whilst I am on the subject, I would like to point out that the Deer Best Practice is a great document, very informative and helpful but it is only a guide and not the gospel as read by yds Edited May 30, 2012 by Blunderbust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant8681 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I have hunted for nearly all of my life and have worked in a slaughter house so I am fairly hardened death but for some reason this vid has bothered me quite alot! I am not going to say that its wrong but I dont really see the need to video it for the world to see, I think its a bit wrong for such a beautiful creature to have its death played over and over again. I take pictures of all my kills and post them on here so I guess i am a bit of a hypocrit but its just how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted May 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Yds, Come to think of it I was doing a guided stalk in Scotland a few years ago and on one of my stalks I decided that my target beast, a Red Spiker was providing me with a great safe neck shot and the guide was more than happy with me taking said shot. Then again he was not walking funny so he probably did not have his copy of Deer Best Practice shoved as far up his rectum as you do. Whilst I am on the subject, I would like to point out that the Deer Best Practice is a great document, very informative and helpful but it is only a guide and not the gospel as read by yds If you were to look down my videos sir you will see plenty of clients have taken neck shots, but the ranges are short. I am not anti neck shot but they are for experienced shots at short ranges and head shots should be a no no for any one as the "norm". The best practice was formulated not by 1 but by many better stalkers then we will ever be so don't poo poo it. It is as you say a guideline and i break it all the time, but do stick to it as often as i can aand don't flaunt it or use it as toilet paper. Like you then go on to say its a great document and we should promote it when we can. There are loads more novices on here then experienced stalkers and we should not promote head shots. Edited May 30, 2012 by yds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted May 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN_TIXfnXsk there are more but it is getting boring now. Edited May 30, 2012 by yds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted May 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I have hunted for nearly all of my life and have worked in a slaughter house so I am fairly hardened death but for some reason this vid has bothered me quite alot! I am not going to say that its wrong but I dont really see the need to video it for the world to see, I think its a bit wrong for such a beautiful creature to have its death played over and over again. I take pictures of all my kills and post them on here so I guess i am a bit of a hypocrit but its just how I feel. it is educational in the respect if the deer had not turned to show the exit hole and run into cover how many wouldn't have gone and checked to see if it was a hit? Yes we see it jump but not so many do when they are shooting because they close their eyes on recoil. Again if you sift through the vids you will often hear a client say "did i get it?" when they hve hit it well. and to say watch it over and over again? stop playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Pieman Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 So, was the hedge solid? I know the backstop suitability was questioned, but can't find an answer :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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