Lord Geordie Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Hello again. Tried my first attempt at home loads today. Followed the recipie accuratley and the shot seems slow to reach the target and leaves quite a bit of residue in the barrels. Is this too much powder as it seems to not be burning it effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Shaw Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Sounds like low pressure. Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 What's the recipe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Sounds like low pressure. Mick. it does sound like low pressure. but it just may burn dirty. if you were after a cleaner load then increase the pressure, by adding more powder. the load is dirty because the powder hasnt reached its minimal clean burn. this has a slight relationship with burn rate, but penultimately the pressure of the cartridge will determine how clean it is. most loads are clean at 9000psi, but the lighter loads need 10,000psi to start getting real clean. powders i can recomend for cleanlyness are titewad at 8000psi or more. i have had this stuff burning at below 5000psi. which is amazing. this is one of the fastest standard powders. is it is AS i think you are dealing with, it is slightly slower than reddot, so get the pressure to 8000psi minimum, optimal 9000psi. after that, the loads start using up every flake of that powder, none is wasted. good luck with your quest. i have has AS burning at 5000psi, but that was with a very heavy charge, so the powder responds slightly different. with the heavyer charge, it burns cleaner with a lower than average pressure. but one thing it does sacrifice is, cartridge performance / speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted August 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 It was 18.8gr vectan neodisk 28 24g lead Ched CX2000 primer 12g 70mm case So upping the powder to 19gr may help? I did notice the load.seemed slower than a.normal load.to reach its target Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 .2 grain will do absolutely nothing. what is the pressure of the load? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted August 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) Cookoff. There was no supporting data reguarding the pressure! Only the basic weights and components. I have a huge tub of Neodisk 28 i want to use up which apparently.is a fast powder? Once thats gone I am after titewad as I have data for it with the pressure data also. I was also going to use red dot and green dot for differing loads and I already have an amount of greendot. At the moment the Data I was supplied was shown with obsolete wads. I have now found Midways have the direct replacements for the wads in the data so should allow me to open up a few more options. The neodisk was just not getting used so thought if I make up some batches of clay carts it's no loss. I don't want slow unpredictable carts for live game. Thx Edited August 19, 2012 by Lord Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Are you compressing the powder properly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Cookoff. There was no supporting data reguarding the pressure! Only the basic weights and components. I have a huge tub of Neodisk 28 i want to use up which apparently.is a fast powder? Once thats gone I am after titewad as I have data for it with the pressure data also. I was also going to use red dot and green dot for differing loads and I already have an amount of greendot. At the moment the Data I was supplied was shown with obsolete wads. I have now found Midways have the direct replacements for the wads in the data so should allow me to open up a few more options. The neodisk was just not getting used so thought if I make up some batches of clay carts it's no loss. I don't want slow unpredictable carts for live game. Thx LG. first, you chose an incomplete dataset. that is your first mistake. who knows how healthy the load is anyway? wiithout the pressure data. it tells us reloaders a big part of the story, but with the rest of the data finishes it and puts it all in context. i can read a data set and with a little investigation of the powder can tell if the load is rubbish or good. as its ND28 it may be only good for 28 gram loads in the first instance, and with a little research could shoot 24g loads. what you have is a lack off data. if you showed me a data set for 28g loads that could tell me if its suitable for 24g loads. a 700Bar 28gram load can be loaded with 24g of shot and still do the business. if you are intended to load 24g game load? what is that for? we may be able to work out what you can use with minimal component purchases. obviously its a game load you are making? i dont think its the powder compression, as the load is compressed twice with the final crimp. there is nothing wrong with slow game carts, they pattern better, and are softer through light game guns. just buy a bigger shotsize. and dont really give too much thought about "lack of shot" and patterning issues. i patterned some loads and all the shot was accounted for. no flyers. when i tried a "not too comparable" load 50% shot disapeared. i havent a clue where it went. but i know where it wasnt, the pattern board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted August 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Thanks Cookoff. A friend was using ND28 for 1oz loads at around 21gr with fio 616 primers and pushing a health 1300fps (chronoed) I had a suspicion that 18.8 gr was a little low for 24g loads. Yes I am meaning to crack on loading both Game AND Clay, in 24g loads. I have seen a fibre load here the other day that looked interesting, and am not opposed to going up to 1oz loads. I was just wanting to try and make the most of the ND28 then move onto the more up to date data for the newer powders. As I say I have data inc pressure data for quite a few carts of varying loads. These call for the like of Green dot. Red dot. Titewad etc. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 If the data for a 1 oz load required 21grains of the powder, then the lighter version will require at least as much to burn well because there is less resistance from the lighter payload to generate the pressures required for a clean burn. I would use the 1oz data and change to the shot load to 24grams and see how it performs but the pressures will definitely be lower so you are quite safe and that way it will also give you a little slack for changing other components if you need to use a different wad for example. I use 21grains of Vectan AS from 24-30grams of shot and it works well in all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 If the data for a 1 oz load required 21grains of the powder, then the lighter version will require at least as much to burn well because there is less resistance from the lighter payload to generate the pressures required for a clean burn. I would use the 1oz data and change to the shot load to 24grams and see how it performs but the pressures will definitely be lower so you are quite safe and that way it will also give you a little slack for changing other components if you need to use a different wad for example. I use 21grains of Vectan AS from 24-30grams of shot and it works well in all of them. +1 cheers for chipping in andy. i would say to the original poster... load 28grams as a game load anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted August 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Will give it a go and report back! Thanks Guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) But fast burning powders and dirty barrels don't usually go togeather. Even if the load is weak it should still be clean Weak sooty loads can be caused by loose cartridges. The powder has to be compressed to burn right through evenly. You didn't answer my question, what ramming pressure are you using? Edited August 19, 2012 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted August 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) The pressure of the lee loader lever! I wasn't aware there was a certain compression needed! What amount of pressure would be recommended? Thx Edited August 19, 2012 by Lord Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 The pressure of the lee loader lever! I wasn't aware there was a certain compression needed! What amount of pressure would be recommended? Thx I am not familiar with the Lee Loader so I will have to leave this for someone else to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 IME, powder doesn't need to be particularly compressed to burn well, if you've got a good crimp so the wad is down on the powder then it is compressed enough otherwise all you will do is squash the wad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) There should always be a wad seating pressure. This is what Alliant have to say about it. Go to item 7 http://www.alliantpo..._shotshell.aspx Edited August 19, 2012 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 There should always be a wad seating pressure. This is what Alliant have to say about it. Go to item 7 http://www.alliantpo..._shotshell.aspx If you've a good crimp there will be adequate wad seating pressure. There's no point in forcing components down or you'll just end up with a bulged shell that wont chamber or whose crimp will open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) If you've a good crimp there will be adequate wad seating pressure. There's no point in forcing components down or you'll just end up with a bulged shell that wont chamber or whose crimp will open. I don't know, throughout my shotgun loading days I always used mine set at 50lbs At first I would adjust it and then gradually just left it set on 50. I never had any problems with bulged cases ever. But it does make a difference. The ABC of Reloading says there should be a minimum of 20lbs wad seating pressure Edited August 19, 2012 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 As a rule of thumb only fibre wadded shells, with the correct powder, need seating pressure. No seating pressure is placed on plastic wads, that is why the legs are not collapsed when you see through a Superb or a Super Competition shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Thanks to those who've answered this, I've been meaning to ask about wad pressure too. Hopefully this'll help L.g. As much as myself; Can you tell me how to decide how deep the final crimp should be please as to my mind that has a bearing on the overall "tension" within the finished cartridge? (ah, sorry, the load all isn't adjustable for that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I am going to take a peek actually to see how it finishes the crimp. Could you not finish the crimp then drop a coin on top of the crimp and crimp.deeper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Lee finished crimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Second stage crimp a-la-washer with a 1.5mm washer placed on the crimp and re crimped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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