wannabe_keeper Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Ever since leaving college it was my dream to be a Gamekeeper. However after numerous job applications and sending CV's of to various estates i was never fortunate enough to get the dream job. Ever since i have been trying my hardest to find some land to set up a small shoot on to no avail. However... recently i took it upon myself to send out 40 letters to local farms which to the best of my knowledge didnt have any kind of formal shooting taking place on them. (it cost me £50 in stamps, envelopes and library printing costs!) But it seems it may have been worthwhile as last night i had a call from a farmer who is very interested to meet me. He owns approx 150 acres with several acres of woodland and apparently another 50-60 acres on which he has permission to shoot. The guy is 70 but seems very keen to meet me as he is a keen shooter himself. I am 23 and would love to put a couple hundred birds down next year, build a small release pen etc... i know the acreage is nothing to sustain a massive shoot but a small DIY job for a few friends is what im after. I have a meeting with the guy tomorrow but i wanted peoples opinions on how best to approach it. Do i go saying i am prepared to pay up to £5/acre/year for the shooting rights and try and get some sort of contract or something in writing. The only thing im scepticle about after speaking to him is he and his friends very much like their shooting and occasionally have a walk round for some birds. What i dont want is to pay for some birds, feed etc... and then find his thinking was i was doing all this for himself to go shooting all the time lol. I might sound a bit cynical here as i would be more than happy to allow the farm owner to accompany us on arranged days but obviously i would want to set half a dozen days maybe sell a gun or 2 to cover a bit of feed cost etc... I was just wondering what your opinions were on how best to approach it and what to say, what not to say, what to ask etc... Should it be formally in writing or just 'an agreement'. Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 you'll need to look around first and spend many hours assessing what the potential is and what would be needed to create a good shoot out of it. i'll write up some more later when have some time where abouts are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted November 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 down in West Sussex mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Meet him and see what he wants you may be surprised. There are two ways of keeping him shooting on the land and that is offering him either a full day for him and his friends or a gun or two each time out. He may be thinking you can keeper it and he will pay the costs you never know, ultimately its not a big acreage so whats important is what shoots are round it as you could put birds down and just see them hop over the boundary. We have taken on a shoot this year and my mate who farms the ground used to have a syndicate on it, they used to pay for a gun and then later swapped a gun a week for an entire day. All went sour when they worked out the keeper was trying his hardest to get beaters to walk over birds so they had a poor day. Now he is gone and we put 275 birds down and have fed it well birds were £1000 food is in effect free and we did up the release pen that was there. So far on two days we have shot 108 with plenty still to go at, by not shooting too often and keeping it quiet we have gained a lot of birds from a couple of neighbouring shoots so have had a net gain and returns will be quite impressive. Your fundamentals are feeding and watering and vermin control, then you look at improving the habitat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted November 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Thanks for your good advice Alex, the farm is surrounded by 1 very large estate and a couple of small shoots. The nearest estate is pretty big and put down a fair amount of birds, not sure if this is a good or bad thing really as i suppose we may gain birds but may lose any we put down. Will definately consider the points you raise, i was thinking about a similair number of birds and maybe 50 duck on the small flight pond that he said is there. Making 3 or 4 small drives followed by duck flighting maybe £80 a day per gun i dunno really. Getting a bit ahead of myself now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 as said above...see what he wants first...he might be willing to pay costs or half...go in with an open view and let him do the talking first...maybe say to him..what are you looking for??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickologjam Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 You have opened this one up for l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickologjam Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 I'll try again!! You have opened this one up for lots of opinions but remember opinions only apply to people's knowledge of their own situation and every shoot differs. My advice is be open minded but remember it has to work for everyone involved so don't put too much from yourself on the table too soon. Shooting is expensive and people are all too happy to pass on the costs to you but take the enjoyment for themselves. I would never take a shoot on assuming you could draw birds from elsewhere. Negotiate and cost for the worst case scenarios and it can only get better!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) I have a meeting with the guy tomorrow but i wanted peoples opinions on how best to approach it. Do i go saying i am prepared to pay up to £5/acre/year for the shooting rights and try and get some sort of contract or something in writing. First off be yourself and try to judge what sort of person her is as your going to be trusting him with a fair bit of your (and other peoples) time and money, no point in thinking about prices until you have had time to look around at the land, you need to work out how many drives you can make, which areas will hold the birds, the type of terrain, if there is any piped water that could be taped into, some where to site a pen, any existing pens, does the farmer grow wheat (for feed, cash in his pocket) etc etc, and these are the points i would concentrate on for the time being. don't go looking to seal the deal with a contract, but you could slip it into the convosation to see his reaction, some farmers just don't like that sort of thing! The only thing im scepticle about after speaking to him is he and his friends very much like their shooting and occasionally have a walk round for some birds. What i dont want is to pay for some birds, feed etc... and then find his thinking was i was doing all this for himself to go shooting all the time lol. this will with luck work in your faviour, offer him either a gun per day or a day for 8 guns per season I might sound a bit cynical here as i would be more than happy to allow the farm owner to accompany us on arranged days but obviously i would want to set half a dozen days maybe sell a gun or 2 to cover a bit of feed cost etc... start asking your shooting buddies who wants in, each pay into the pot, it's better on a diy scale than trying to sell days I was just wondering what your opinions were on how best to approach it and what to say, what not to say, what to ask etc... Should it be formally in writing or just 'an agreement'. Harry and yes i'd put down some birds so that you don't pee off the local keepers and you have your own population to draw from rather than relying on birds wandering, this may also help you build a useful relationship with some of the keepers too.Costs? Rent, even with a gun you will most likely need to pay the farmer some rent. Birds, 49+ day olds poults are best, about 3.50 / bird. Feed, look at burning up 12 to 15 bags per 1000 birds per week, for poults you need to start on a higher % protein working down as they get older, something like 23%, 20%, 18%, release mixed with wheat. Don't forget grit, the birds need it to digest the feed, i add mine to the pellet / wheat a couple of handfulls mixed into each 45 gallon hopper, i can be fed seperate but done this way clean grit is always there. Medication, they need to be wormed at the very least! but have a contigency for a few hundred pounds at least. Feeders, even diy hoppers need materials to make them (timber drums lids and a spring / pan / wright feeder). Straw for rides, spice to attract / hold birds, cut maize. Syndicate insurance, it's the easy way, better to be safe and know everyone is covered whether a syndicate member or a guest, prices start from 28 quid / gun Pen materials (posts, netting, staples, straing wire, hog rings, fox grids,timber for gates, timber and sheet for shelters, water pipe / tank / fittings / drinkers, electric fencer unit, wire and battery) Cover crops? and as Nick said >>Shooting is expensive and people are all too happy to pass on the costs to you but take the enjoyment for themselves<< every little thing costs, and those costs add up, you'd be surprised, so keep a note of it all. please excuse any spelling mistakes............... Edited November 29, 2012 by Paul223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) oh aye, a good format which we use on our shoot, 8 guns, usually 6 drives per day, beat one shoot one, so 16 guns in less yourself (if your doing the keepering work, bet it'll cost you more than the gun price alone in fuel to drive back and forth!) and the farmer if he takes the day per shoot, thats the costs divided between 14. p.s. it's a LOT of work, but VERY rewarding on shoot days when things go according to plan, but never think you will be able to enjoy it the same as the other guns do, you'll get a different type of enjoyment out of it Edited November 29, 2012 by Paul223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted November 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 well it couldnt have gone better really. the farmer was a really nice old boy who just wants to see his land put to good use. he doesnt want any money in rent and is willing to contribute towards running costs. there are ideal areas for a small pen for 200 or so birds, 4 obvious drives with a small pond for flighting etc... just gotta draw up some terms now. he said we can sell a couple of days to make a bit of money to cover feed costs etc... and the rest can be guest days for my friends and myself and one or two days for himself. result! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 certainly is a good result! good luck with your new venture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 yes that sounds good, i'd be looking to have a deal over a couple of years saving anyone else coming along after you have done the initial set up and offering him more / better deal / whatever good luck with it fella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave C Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Sounds like you are onto a winner mate. Like the good advice given, get to know your land before you make any dicissions, take your time with your planning and keep the old boy on side (maybe help out with a few jobs), and as above get your deal for 3 years or more so you can make some good strong planns for the future, as well as some good hides around the pond and rides through the cover, which would be a waste of time if you only get the land for a year or so. Sounds like you are starting well, good luck. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeper1984 Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 well done mate i am in the same postion as you i have a 350 acre shoot i paid and did all the work myself. put down 125 ex layers 20 partridge. we dont have any game cover except hedge rows. first day shot: 24 pheasants,1 partridge,2 foxes,6 pigeons 2nd day ..... 29th december .... 20 sorry if its basic things i learnt this year : fox control ... shot,snared 18 foxes since march still loads about. snaring is great working while you sleep. feeders... the more the better on the edge of drives, feed them where you want them. hand feeding on rides a big draw to pheasants but dont over do it they just fill up and wander in my experience as well as draw in all manner of vermin. set up rat baiting stations. water is very important every pheasant on the place will leave if they dont have water basic i know but some people dont do it. dog walkers and ramblers... make it clear its a nature conservation area. muck heaps are a massive draw first thing in the morning if there is one on the boundary i feel for you i have feeders and food all around are heap they dont want it if a bit of bug eating is on offer. ducks... get a couple of tame white ones they call them in. walking in the boundarys on a daily basis. keeper1984 this year was a learning curve for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 all excellent advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted December 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 thanks keeper1984 some top tips! im looking forward to learning all about it through 2013 and may well call on the forum for some further advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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