Ess vs sprocker

[Essex Keeper]

I've got a ess love her to bits but want another dog I've been looking at another ess but all so started looking at sprockers what everyone's thoughts on sprockers

[WGD]

Mongrels... get something you know the lineage of.

 

Unlike other mongrels cockers and springers do the same job so chances are you will get a dog that does what you want it to, but only if you know the parents are capable.

 

Wouldn't be me.

[The Croc]

<<<< Avatar = Sprocker would love to have him back again, far far better than the ESS I have now

[vixen.]

Don't see the point in breeding sprockers . I'm not saying they're not good dogs, a mates sprocker is amongst one of the best working spaniels I've seen. But you can buy a big or small built springer same way you can buy a big or small built cocker, if they're bred right they'll do their job and you've got a history of what they're out of....just seems pointless mixing the two these days when both breeds are made up of each other anyway if that makes sense.

[kent]

For me it would be attractive for the reasons of introducing new blood, cockers especially don't have a wide gene pool. Provided both sides of a mating were good there is little reason you wouldn't get a good un over a pure cocker or pure ESS

[WGD]

Nice idea kent, but if both sides of the mating were any good at all - or particularly well bred - any self respecting owner wouldn't consent to the mating!

 

Also depends on whether the dog in question is a first cross, and whether the OP has done enough homework to know why they want a dog from a particular sire/dam.

 

Like I said, wouldn't be me.

[antuk99]

I have a sprocker so I'm biased

She is a good all round gun dog happy working the beating line but when we get to the guns she will want to find the birds she has worked herself hard & never knows when to stop

I was lead to believe they were bred for the agility of a spaniel & the mentality of a cocker but if both parents come from working stock it's programmed into them just need to learn how to control it I think mine controls me but makes me look good or bad on the day

What do they say never work with kids & animals its true

[beeredup]

Ihave just got a Sprocker pup and so far he seems very calm (most of the tmie) and he is learning his basic obedience training very well he is very keen to impress me. when he went for his first innoculation at the vets he just sat there on the table cool as a cucumber. he is going to be my first trained gun dog having had a springer and a cocker as pets when i was younger though these were both well trained and well behaved dogs so will be interesting taking training further into being a fully fledged gun dog

[monster1971]

For me it would be attractive for the reasons of introducing new blood, cockers especially don't have a wide gene pool. Provided both sides of a mating were good there is little reason you wouldn't get a good un over a pure cocker or pure ESS

Spot on kent I have both ESS and sprocker and have found that of all the sprockers i have come across ( one of them now being 15 and her son 11 and still working well ) they seem to be less prone to inbred illness that so many so called full blood pedigree dogs seem to suffer with ,having said that personally I found my ESS easier to train than the sprocker .my ESS has no papers but is a great little dog.I hold very little store in pedigree dogs being better ,if you go back far enough they were all mutts at one point ,the sprocker is a great little dog but you will certainly come up against some dog snobbery in the shooting world ,as above

[monster1971]

Just to add the kernel club do not recognise the sprocker as a breed but they do recognise the field spaniel which they themselves define as a nineteenth century cross between a Sussex spaniel and a cocker spaniel

[WGD]

but you will certainly come up against some dog snobbery in the shooting world ,as above

 

It has nothing to do with snobbery or KC registration, for me it is to do with traceability and knowing the characteristics of the dogs in the recent ancestry of the one I am buying.

[Sprocket]

I have a sprocker so I'm biased

She is a good all round gun dog happy working the beating line but when we get to the guns she will want to find the birds she has worked herself hard & never knows when to stop

I was lead to believe they were bred for the agility of a spaniel & the mentality of a cocker but if both parents come from working stock it's programmed into them just need to learn how to control it I think mine controls me but makes me look good or bad on the day

What do they say never work with kids & animals its true

What if you get the agility of a cocker and the mentality of a springer?

[ROBLATCH]

cocker all the way for me , mine does exactly what i need BUT its horses for courses depending on what you expect

[kent]

It has nothing to do with snobbery or KC registration, for me it is to do with traceability and knowing the characteristics of the dogs in the recent ancestry of the one I am buying.

This is entirely a different matter, I should still want to know the two halves of the match were good. Also some of us are looking for good working dogs not extra cash from the pups. If someone wanted my Lab to sire a std poodle, that their concern it takes nothing from the dog. working cockers are getting too close now and new blood is good, the KC seem dead against healthy breeding if a cocker is 1/24 ESS does it make it worse? is it an unfair advantage in trials?

[chrispti]

My sprocker came from working dogs, mum a Springer, dad a cocker.

 

Both the mum and dad came from a good history of trial lines.

 

I saw both parents being worked and all their paperwork to prove their lines.

 

Best £250 Iv spent.

 

[antuk99]

 

What if you get the agility of a cocker and the mentality of a springer?

Then your in big trouble lol

Saying that sprinters being that bigger are suited to the heather

Cockers although do struggle a little but it don't slow them down I can promise

 

 

Blooming predictive text on iPad & can't edit springers not mercs

[WGD]

This is entirely a different matter, I should still want to know the two halves of the match were good. Also some of us are looking for good working dogs not extra cash from the pups. If someone wanted my Lab to sire a std poodle, that their concern it takes nothing from the dog. working cockers are getting too close now and new blood is good, the KC seem dead against healthy breeding if a cocker is 1/24 ESS does it make it worse? is it an unfair advantage in trials?

 

Cash from pups is an irrelevance, the last but one spaniel I bought KC reg's and I paid £250 for her.

 

Not sure what point you are making re your dog and a poodle?

 

The cocker gene pool is getting larger, not smaller. It was minute but the popularity of the breed in relatively recent years has seen that expand due to the number of pups being produced. The successful trial dogs contain many common names, but all in all there are plenty of dogs around... don't believe everything you read in the Shooting Times...

 

I have no particular axe to grind with the KC, they have their faults, but then any regulatory body will come in for criticism from some quarter. They are not against healthy breeding, and if a cocker was 1/24 ESS it wouldn't be in a trial because it wouldn't be KC reg'd... in theory anyway.

[beeredup]

My sprocker came from working dogs, mum a Springer, dad a cocker.

 

Both the mum and dad came from a good history of trial lines.

 

I saw both parents being worked and all their paperwork to prove their lines.

 

Best £250 Iv spent.

 

Wow great looking dog, would be interesting to see if having a pup from a springer bitch or a cocker bitch and vice versa makes any difference in size? i know Bullets from a cocker bitch (working) and a springer i know he is coming on very well and visitors cannot beleive how chilled out and well behaved he is (i am expecting this to chenge any day soon) i am looking forward to seeing how big he is gonna get, as he has grown a heck of a lot in the week we have had him and his paws are rather big

Edited December 31, 2012 by beeredup

[chrispti]

Mines coming up for 2, introduced her to game this season, she's gone up a few gears now!!!

 

Heres a short clip of her hunting up a fallen tree, theres still some way to go, but shes steadily getting there.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2012 by chrispti

[kent]

Cash from pups is an irrelevance, the last but one spaniel I bought KC reg's and I paid £250 for her.

 

Not sure what point you are making re your dog and a poodle?

 

The cocker gene pool is getting larger, not smaller. It was minute but the popularity of the breed in relatively recent years has seen that expand due to the number of pups being produced. The successful trial dogs contain many common names, but all in all there are plenty of dogs around... don't believe everything you read in the Shooting Times...

 

I have no particular axe to grind with the KC, they have their faults, but then any regulatory body will come in for criticism from some quarter. They are not against healthy breeding, and if a cocker was 1/24 ESS it wouldn't be in a trial because it wouldn't be KC reg'd... in theory anyway.

Yes that's my point it wouldn't be able to be in a trial UNLESS someone was less than honest about the pedigree along the way (I am sure this has happened). If I was after a spanner I should be sorely tempted by a sprocker. breeding back into pure cocker or pure springer lines would give that vital new blood. My mention of the poodle rubbish was to make a point as was the cash the owner of the stud should not care and the bitch owner has a purpose in mind anyway (generally to produce what he /she wants). The majority of gundog owners still work their dogs and aint bothered for trials so a sprocker is no disadvantage. If a good cocker and a good springer made their own arrangements in the kennels or truck without human ideals then that would be just fine by me, I should however need some convincing that it was the actual pair (not the sister in laws jack Russel etc) and the bitch wasn't being bred to death after registering her quota of kennel club pure pups.

[WGD]

I hear what you're saying kent and sprockers are the one cross I do rate. I wouldn't have one because of 1) my intention to compete with a pup if it, or its trainer, prove up to mark and 2) I rarely see spaniels in the shooting field I would actually want a pup from, so prefer to research lineage and gain knowledge about dogs either I, or other people, have seen in competition.

 

Back to the point. Cockers and springers do the same job so crossing them will result in a dog which will do the same job again - no issues with that. Retriever/spaniel crosses flummox me...why do that? You are diluting a set of skills refined over many many years and generations to give you the best dog for the job an have no idea what you will end up with.

 

When asked "what do people think of sprockers" I always give my honest opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree and I see plenty happy sprocker owners.

[1967spud]

Once you go cocker the rest are poor sunstitutes

[spinny]

well im goin to be breedin a litter of sprockers iv got a small workin ess bitch and im puttin the brother to me cocker bitch which i bred over her there not breed for money purly for mates who want bushing dogs and the cocker bitch i bred from shes larford abby out of larford cantrenxlarford gwen and the dog im using is line bred to that line and the ess is keeper bred x a ftch ive got no probs with crossin the two breeds LET RIP AT WILL LOL

[kent]

I hear what you're saying kent and sprockers are the one cross I do rate. I wouldn't have one because of 1) my intention to compete with a pup if it, or its trainer, prove up to mark and 2) I rarely see spaniels in the shooting field I would actually want a pup from, so prefer to research lineage and gain knowledge about dogs either I, or other people, have seen in competition.

 

Back to the point. Cockers and springers do the same job so crossing them will result in a dog which will do the same job again - no issues with that. Retriever/spaniel crosses flummox me...why do that? You are diluting a set of skills refined over many many years and generations to give you the best dog for the job an have no idea what you will end up with.

 

 

Yes, an honest opinion is always better than running with the crowd. Don't mix up breeding with training in your selection, what you see in the field is largely due to the latter not the former. IMO and I have said it before Trial and Shooting dogs have now separated physically and mentally, its no difference with the Sheepdogs either. I agree there will be a few good Lab x ESS about but its a cross that is fancy full at best. I am currently struggling "not to buy a spanner" but the sprocker might well head the list if I ever fail! Mainly coz I couldn't care a jot about trialing and its a cross that cannot detract from its work intentions yet gives vital new blood.

 

When asked "what do people think of sprockers" I always give my honest opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree and I see plenty happy sprocker owners.