al4x Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 FEO could but it would highlight their failings, get it in writing and then it's up to you whether you believe them or the pw barrack room lawyers. To date no one in your situation has been prosecuted, that's not to say you couldn't be the first but it puts the risk in perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 I did not get this in writing i will wait until my visit and discuss with him, if this is looking to be after expiry date i will try and get a written document. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb79 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Might be worth emailing the firearms licensing dept manager with a summary of the conversation and asking her to confirm that you have got it right. She's usually very good at replying and that way you're covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Might be worth emailing the firearms licensing dept manager with a summary of the conversation and asking her to confirm that you have got it right. She's usually very good at replying and that way you're covered. Will do this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Well contacted by email today and got below response. Hi , I can confirm you are covered after the expiry date on the 04.03.2013. Your renewal has been received on time and was sent to your enquiry officer ? on the 12.02.2013. He will be in contact in the next few weeks to arrange an appointment. If you haven't heard from him after a few weeks, please contact him on ?? to book yourself in his diary. Unfortunately due to the delays in the office, the process of certificates are taking a lot longer then usual, but you are covered to use and store your weapons as you usually would. Apologies for any inconvenience caused. Many Thanks ? Firearms Administrator Firearms Licensing Dept. MY MAIL Hi I thought I would drop you a line following my conversation yesterday with a very polite lady at your office concerning my firearm renewal application. This was sent to you on the 14th January and I was concerned about receiving the new license before the old one expires. I was told the following:- My renewal form all received and is waiting processing they are currently working on Novembers so mine will definitely be delayed. I asked about a S7 and was told I could apply but it is not necessary because as the delay is their fault I am covered. If I require ammo I can have this 'gifted' to me by a fellow shooter. It was then explained to me that I would receive call from FEO soon to arrange inspection, but I am allowed to hold firearm(s) and keep as before until new one comes through. Can kindly confirm that this. Many thanks and regards __________________________________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Bryn that backs up the common sense approach a few forces seem to be using, you will find when you get your renewal the gap would only be a technicality as the new certificate is usually dated from the date of expiry of the last one. Obviously its up to you whether you believe them but personally I'd not be putting mine in storage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Bryn that backs up the common sense approach a few forces seem to be using, you will find when you get your renewal the gap would only be a technicality as the new certificate is usually dated from the date of expiry of the last one. Obviously its up to you whether you believe them but personally I'd not be putting mine in storage Yes i think I will carry on as normal (just hope common sense prevails) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 If I received this confirmation as well I would not be putting anything in storage and even carry on shooting. If they would want to be difficult and prosecute then I would have their letter as insurance and they would get in as much trouble as me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb79 Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Looks good to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Well just got off the phone from a very polite lady, I was told the following:- My renewal form all received and is waiting processing they are currently working on Novembers so mine will definitely be delayed. I asked about a S7 and was told i could apply but it is not necessary because as the the delay is their fault i am covered. If i require ammo I can have this 'gifted' to me by a fellow shooter. It was then explained to me that i would receive call from FAO soon to arrange inspection, but i am allowed to hold firearm(s) and keep as before until new one comes through. I shall now wait and see what happens when i get my visit and have a discussion with FAO So, now, not only are they telling you that it's ok to break the law by remaining in possession of firearms without a certificate, they are saying that it's quite ok for a certificate holder to 'gift' ammunition to someone without a certificate? Unbelievable! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Well contacted by email today and got below response. Hi , I can confirm you are covered after the expiry date on the 04.03.2013. Your renewal has been received on time and was sent to your enquiry officer ? on the 12.02.2013. He will be in contact in the next few weeks to arrange an appointment. If you haven't heard from him after a few weeks, please contact him on ? ? to book yourself in his diary. Unfortunately due to the delays in the office, the process of certificates are taking a lot longer then usual, but you are covered to use and store your weapons as you usually would. Apologies for any inconvenience caused. Many Thanks ? Firearms Administrator Firearms Licensing Dept. MY MAIL Hi I thought I would drop you a line following my conversation yesterday with a very polite lady at your office concerning my firearm renewal application. This was sent to you on the 14th January and I was concerned about receiving the new license before the old one expires. I was told the following:- My renewal form all received and is waiting processing they are currently working on Novembers so mine will definitely be delayed. I asked about a S7 and was told I could apply but it is not necessary because as the delay is their fault I am covered. If I require ammo I can have this 'gifted' to me by a fellow shooter. It was then explained to me that I would receive call from FEO soon to arrange inspection, but I am allowed to hold firearm(s) and keep as before until new one comes through. Can kindly confirm that this. Many thanks and regards __________________________________________________________________________________ They are wrong and I am quite frankly stunned and amazed that they have put this in writing! They are telling you that it's perfecly fine to break the law beacsue they can't do their job in a timely manner. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Yes i think I will carry on as normal (just hope common sense prevails) The thing is that nothing will happen until....err....something happens. Could you imagine what the fallout would have been had Derek Bird or Michael Atherton been in possession of illegal firearms (which you are if your cert has expired) when they went off the rails? Doesn't bear thinking about. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 If I received this confirmation as well I would not be putting anything in storage and even carry on shooting. If they would want to be difficult and prosecute then I would have their letter as insurance and they would get in as much trouble as me. That would be no consolation to me and I would suggest won't be to you either if the wheel comes off. Be in absolutely no doubt mate - you are in illegal possession of firearms if your cert has expired. If you have a humane dispatch pistol on FAC and that has expired you are committng a section 5 offence! What happens if someone else with an expired cert does something stupid? Still think you'd sleep ok? I wouldn't. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 That would be no consolation to me and I would suggest won't be to you either if the wheel comes off. Be in absolutely no doubt mate - you are in illegal possession of firearms if your cert has expired. If you have a humane dispatch pistol on FAC and that has expired you are committng a section 5 offence! What happens if someone else with an expired cert does something stupid? Still think you'd sleep ok? I wouldn't. . The police would be just in as much trouble as me and knowing the police they would rather risk my neck than theirs so this is a good indication that they might not want to prosecute. The thing is that nothing will happen until....err....something happens. Could you imagine what the fallout would have been had Derek Bird or Michael Atherton been in possession of illegal firearms (which you are if your cert has expired) when they went off the rails? Doesn't bear thinking about. J. Actually the fallout is not as bad when illegal firearms are involved, only when legal ones are. Let's not forget he has it in writing from the police that is a legal document, it's not acceptable of course but at least he has his back covered if anything bad happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted February 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Well today had phone call from FEO to arrange home visit, i wonder if i will receive cert before expiry date?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 The police would be just in as much trouble as me and knowing the police they would rather risk my neck than theirs so this is a good indication that they might not want to prosecute. Actually the fallout is not as bad when illegal firearms are involved, only when legal ones are. Let's not forget he has it in writing from the police that is a legal document, it's not acceptable of course but at least he has his back covered if anything bad happened. Sorry but you are wrong. No one's back is covered because the police cannot give you permission to break the law and that document in no way carries any legal authority what-so-ever. Besides, it will be very little consolation knowing that the person who told you to break the law will be going to prison as well as you - at least I don't think it would be. The fallout for everyone, shooters especially, if a person with an expired certificate went on the rampage would be even worse than had he had a valid certificate. Believe me, it just would. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Yes but it would be the police's fault not ours. In fact actions like this surprise me not one bit. let's not forget it was the police who gave Atherton back his guns after siezing them form him after a domestic incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Yes but it would be the police's fault not ours. In fact actions like this surprise me not one bit. let's not forget it was the police who gave Atherton back his guns after siezing them form him after a domestic incident. It wouldn't though. It would be yours as you can't abrogate criminal responsibility because someone you thought had the authority to do so told you it would be ok. It's the age old maxim of "Ignorance is no excuse". J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 It's still never happened jonno, common sense has ruled so far in thousands of cases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 It's still never happened jonno, common sense has ruled so far in thousands of cases Factually JonathanL is correct the way I see it, his views are backed by Bill Harriman, actually they are not his "views", it is the law, like it or not this is illegal and the Police/Firearms Dept are in no position to circumvent the law. The reality is as per al4x above. There will only ever be a problem with this if someone in Officialdom/Home Office/Government/possibly Press, stands up and tells them to get their act together...or of course, the **** hits the fan big time with a serious firearms offence! It's a bit like the Euro Lottery, sooner or later somebody will win, or lose in this case. :hmm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) Bryn, Carry on as normal mate, carry on shooting, get a sgcholder to buy your cartridges if you run out and give them to you, and for gods sake don't put them in storage, there is no need to worry about anything whatsoever ever mate just carry on and wait for your renewal to land on the matt. It is not worth the pen to paper time worrying mate Just carry on shooting, and wait for yor renewal, you are not breaking any laws, Al4ex is speaking sense, Atb Flynny Edited February 14, 2013 by flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted February 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) FEO visit on Tuesday will discuss matters with him let you know how it goes, thanks to everyone Edited February 14, 2013 by Bryn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 It's a very interesting situation the feo is employed by the chief constable and he carries the can for their actions, so you might imagine the advice given has been run past the Cps and him as it is quite significant. Obviously anyone else can only issue advice based on absolute fact rather than would the police pursue a prosecution of someone when they advised them to take the course of action. In a way it would give them a kick up the backside if a prosecution happened but its not going to. As said the issue comes if someone goes on a rampage with an expired cert but that would be a ****storm on the police authority Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillmouse Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Devon and Cornwall had my certificates three months before expiry and finally returned my new ones 4 months late but even then only when I told the FEO on a daily basis we were moving to a new force area and had to have them within 7 days. Almost made it to 8 months for a renewal. Or almost 20% of the life of the certificate. They assured me my renewal had gone through electronically but it was simply a printing backlog. idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 That may be the answer though you don't have the license in your hands what does the computer say, as when printed and delivered the date as far as I know doesn't show a gap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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