Buying shooting rights

[undes596]

Hi all

 

A local gamekeeper has given up his shoot as he is now to old and we have been offered the land to run a diy shoot on it.

 

The land in question is 1000 acres mixed woodland and the land owner wants £2500 for the rights, it was a very successful shoot which were 70 bird days and demanded £1000+ a place for 10 guns which were ALWAYS full.

 

If we decide to to take this shoot on i only have shotguns so I'm guessing i would need a rifle of two for predator and vermin control, what rifle or rifles would you recommend for say mainly foxes and occasional rabbits?

 

Also what quantity of birds would you put down on a first year? Bearing in mind this is not a professional shoot, just a group of pals looking for there own walked up/rough shoot they can go to at there own leisure! Oh and it will be pheasants only!

 

Thanks guys

[scolopax]

Good luck. Rent is cheap. Always very difficult to judge without seeing the place, but 1000 acres of woodland is a big patch and could handle many thousands of birds, so the main question is how deep are your pockets! IMO on that kind of acreage even for a rough shoot you need to think about 1000 minimum.

 

Rifle, start at .243 as you then always have the option of deer, oh and a .22rf for squirrels and bunnies.

[al4x]

ok look at what was going on before, £1000 per gun and you would expect to have 8 or at a very push 10 guns

 

so 10K budget

 

Rent:- £2.5K

 

Birds for a 70 bird average over 10 days you are looking at somewhere near 1400 at £3.75 each so £5250

 

Pellets 2t or there abouts £700

 

Wheat 6t @ £2 per t so £1200

 

that gives you the thick end of 10K with nothing left for maintenance fuel pen building etc etc so its easy to see why its been given up, in your case just releasing some birds and shooting whenever is likely to be a flop if you are going to do it you need to organise shoot days say 10 of them over the season. Numbers released its best to keep sensible in year 1 then feed costs will be lower and you aren't taking such a gamble but its a fair acreage to loose them on so you would need a few down to be worthwhile.

[undes596]

Thanks for the replies, were not planning on shooting big bags, maybe 50 head and around 5 or 6 shoots, what are we looking at for cover crop now days? And its not 1000acres of woodland its some woodland and some fields.

 

Thanks

[al4x]

bank on a return of 40% if you do well, cover crop cost is hard to say without knowing whether the landowner is in any schemes to pay them for planting them and taking the land out of cropping. If not then you have to compensate for the loss of crop and the cost of establishment.

[mark@mbb]

If you dont mind me asking what area of the country is the shoot no details are needed just a counrty

[scolopax]

£200 to £400 rent an acre for game crops.

[scotslad]

I'd say this is an impossible question to answer on the info provided and without either seeing the ground and knowing the general area.

The first thing i'd do is either ask for some advice of the keeper or someone else who has some experience to have a look over it. Some places that do ok with a good full time keeper will not really work when a diy syndicate and birds aren't hand fed every day

 

First i'd ask wot do u want? I actually think 5 shoot days averaging about 50ish is quite big bags for a diy shoot. Full driven (say 8/10 paying guns and pay beaters on shoot days) or Walk 1 stand 1 (say 16ish paying guns costs halved and no beaters money but 1/2 the shooting, but more hands to help with work parties)

Is there many other syndicates in ur area? Could u fill the space £1000 quid is quite a lot off money and possibly more so for a 'new' shoot

How much time/help have u got? When the birds go to wood they will need to be looked at least twice a day if not more for the first few weeks anyway, also a lot off feed to be carried out depending on the numbers u go for.

 

I'd also say al4x numbers are a bit out, i generally estimate to feed almost double the figures he quoted and i also think if u can get 30% return ur doing pretty good for a diy shoot, and u will possibly struggle even more in the first year or 2 as u 'learn' the shoot Great when u get more but i would not bank on gettin 40%

 

Sorry to be so negative and i'm sure u have already thought about most of the above already but there is a massive ammount of work involved gettin a syndicate like that started from scratch even before the birds arrive. I would say don't be in a hurry to get to big too quick and put pressure on yourself (1 year we only put 150 birds down on 1000acres due to forestry work) the boys enjoyed it just as much and u really appreciated and worked hard for every bird.

[al4x]

I'd also say al4x numbers are a bit out, i generally estimate to feed almost double the figures he quoted and i also think if u can get 30% return ur doing pretty good for a diy shoot, and u will possibly struggle even more in the first year or 2 as u 'learn' the shoot Great when u get more but i would not bank on gettin 40%

 

Sorry to be so negative and i'm sure u have already thought about most of the above already but there is a massive ammount of work involved gettin a syndicate like that started from scratch even before the birds arrive. I would say don't be in a hurry to get to big too quick and put pressure on yourself (1 year we only put 150 birds down on 1000acres due to forestry work) the boys enjoyed it just as much and u really appreciated and worked hard for every bird.

 

I'm with you all the way I went on the best possible figures, local factors are the biggest influence are there shoots surrounding the area are there bucket loads of footpaths and disturbance etc. We managed 4 50 bird days from putting down 275 but and the big but is we have neighboring shoots and have known this one for years so don't have to figure out drives or what usually goes wrong. We also had a pen designed for 1000 birds and that was perfect in a wet year it remained in good nick and disease wasn't an issue.

With DIY syndicates if you can keep the costs down and enjoy it then you don't get the bickering, 3 of us put the money into this with ground rent being free and wheat being thrown in as well as the farmer is a mate shoots and had his choice of how many guns to invite with us filling the spaces. As soon as you start going more formal and charging more there is pressure on you to deliver and that is when it turns into hard work and often far from enjoyable

[Alycidon]

1400 birds are going to get through at least 10 tonnes of wheat feeding from mid August to early May and most likely about 12 tonnes.

 

Maybe the landowner would take a whole day from you free in return for a rent deduction.

 

I would start at 1000 birds, expect to shoot 300-400 and see how you go.

 

Be very carefull who you select as guns, they need to have similar aims, ie dont wack everything. I must shoot my share etc. Put them all on a one year trial, at the end of that they can walk if they want and you can boot them if they dont fit with the rest of the team.

 

Having a big shoot next door is a two edged sword, their keeper will be constantly shepherding any of your birds that put a foot onto his patch toward his woods. Suggest you try and work together somehow.

 

A

[pboro shot]

dont worry about pest/predator control unless you whant to do it sell that to keen riflemen or offer it out in return for working partys etc dont go to mad on paying out on the first year aim to try and break even if you can then build the shoot as the reputation grows and remember youll get out what you put it a old saying but 100% true good luck