Shotgun reloading primers

[turbo33]

Guru input guidance needed!!

My basic understanding is there are hot primers and not so hot primers needing to be compatible with the powder. I'm ok so far. Now there seems to be a plethora of primers out there. Cx's50,1000,2000, Fiocchi's 615's, 616's. m686's etc etc. Without getting overly complicated, is there a primer comparison chart anywhere or is it one of those dark secrets that only the magicians on here know

[sitsinhedges]

As a rough guide click on 'Inneschi' at bottom left

 

http://www.gualandi.it/TabCariche/POLVERI_CARICAMENTO.htm

[turbo33]

Sits your a font of wisdom

[Guest cookoff013]

my advice is quite simple, and very restrictive.

always use an industrial hot type primer. if you stick to that criteria, and pick standard recipes you should do ok.

 

if you select loads where cooler primers are used, etc, usually gives only a few fps faster than standard recipes.

 

why would you want to use a recipe that has a "limp" start?

 

in the states they even use 209a or magnum primers for clay loads.

 

europe are the only continent that uses multiple primer strengths.

 

even the crazy finland data, uses hot primers only, for all gauges

[deershooter]

my advice is quite simple, and very restrictive.

always use an industrial hot type primer. if you stick to that criteria, and pick standard recipes you should do ok.

 

if you select loads where cooler primers are used, etc, usually gives only a few fps faster than standard recipes.

 

why would you want to use a recipe that has a "limp" start?

 

in the states they even use 209a or magnum primers for clay loads.

 

europe are the only continent that uses multiple primer strengths.

 

even the crazy finland data, uses hot primers only, for all gauges

You are only talking about 12 gauge you wont find much for.410 with hot primers

 

Deershooter

[Guest cookoff013]

go to hodgdon data centre.

 

there H110 and the li`gun powders they have data for. 11/16 oz loads of lead, both loads use winchester primers. the same primers as used in 12gauge, as they are the industry standard.

AND they have federal 209a magnum primer data.

 

these use the federal cases which are paralelle type.

 

makes me think "why isnt the american data have diferent strength primers ? "

[Guest cookoff013]

alliant list 15 loads with industry type primers and federal 209a and cci209M which is hotter still.

 

the remington cases use the 209 sts primer or the 209p which are the industry standard.

 

check em out.....

 

cook.

[00buck]

go to hodgdon data centre.

 

there H110 and the li`gun powders they have data for. 11/16 oz loads of lead, both loads use winchester primers. the same primers as used in 12gauge, as they are the industry standard.

AND they have federal 209a magnum primer data.

 

these use the federal cases which are paralelle type.

 

makes me think "why isnt the american data have diferent strength primers ? "

 

 

As anyone had primers a poor fit in cases or fall out

[sitsinhedges]

As anyone had primers a poor fit in cases or fall out

 

Yes, use a dab of superglue or change the case to one with a smaller primer hole.

[Floating Chamber]

 

 

As anyone had primers a poor fit in cases or fall out

The worst 'offender' is the MAXAM case. Most Eleys are of this type, so are SAGA and MODENA. The primer used in these is the MAXAM G600, a 'fatter' primer than the CHEDDITE. Similar fat primers are made by FIOCCHI and MARTIGNONI.

 

However, cartridge manufacturers use ALL makes of case in the same product ranges. YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR EYES PEELED!

Edited March 25, 2013 by Floating Chamber

[izzypop]

yes get this problem all the time find rio cases a problem but thay do reload wel

[Floating Chamber]

yes get this problem all the time find rio cases a problem but thay do reload wel

Yup, RIO are MAXAM cases.

[00buck]

Lot of data us data with cci and winchester primers in 410

Lee data dont say what primer to use

[00buck]

Just been reading about primers in a load data book

It goes on about fitting magnum primers in cold weather

So it's all down to when you want to shoot

[Guest cookoff013]

Just been reading about primers in a load data book

It goes on about fitting magnum primers in cold weather

So it's all down to when you want to shoot

 

it should go on about pressures too. i would never make a substition of primers.

instead of messing about like that, just select the "right" recipe.

[00buck]

Ok I get what you arer saying

But load data should state primers

In a list hot / mild

Like they do on a powder burn rate

[Guest cookoff013]

Ok I get what you arer saying

But load data should state primers

In a list hot / mild

Like they do on a powder burn rate

 

the recipes should list primer as in the brand.

all the industry hot type primers have their quirks.

 

616s are not popular over the states, in cold weather.

the cx2000 are as about standard.

winchester 209 apparently the industry standard.

rem 209 industry standard

the cci 209M is very hot.

federal 209a very hot indeed.

the 600G is quite hot, i`m told.

 

although the mesurement of pressure is the PK1 at 25/30mm is the main pressure peak of the powder not the primer.

however the only way to see what the differences in primer performance would be to load a bunch of hulls with a recipe that either under uses the powder, or low pressure (the one primer that has the hottest pressure is the hottest.)

 

or

 

get a load that is really pushing the powder, then change the primers.

 

what you need to look for are consistency, and pressure at pk1

 

powder burnrate charts are chaff. my favourite powder isnt even on there as its classed as too hot.

[Vince Green]

My experience has been that "hot" primers are not as hot as you might imagine. The manufacturers are too risk adverse to sell the public dodgy primers although they might use them for their own factory loadings.

 

My strategy has been to buy whatever is cheapest (or simply whats available) and I can't put my hand on my heart and say I have ever noticed any difference what so ever. However, I have always loaded fairly middle of the road cartridges.

[00buck]

Yes that's what I think the same with powder

I have some us data that load 410 with longshot powder

Steel shot with blue dot and herco

And many more

And if you look on lee loadall data

It tells you the shot weight powder type bush no

One for plastic shells with paper base wad

One for plastic shells with plastic base wad

It's got that federal 209A primers are high energy use a bush one size smaller

Edited March 26, 2013 by 00buck

[Guest cookoff013]

My experience has been that "hot" primers are not as hot as you might imagine. The manufacturers are too risk adverse to sell the public dodgy primers although they might use them for their own factory loadings.

 

My strategy has been to buy whatever is cheapest (or simply whats available) and I can't put my hand on my heart and say I have ever noticed any difference what so ever. However, I have always loaded fairly middle of the road cartridges.

 

the hot type primers are the industry type. mass produced, no point in having a seperate product ie hotter primer. there are multiple brands of primer all nearly equal, the brands being many

maxam, rio, gytorp, nobelsport, wolf, federal, fiocchi, cheddite, the list goes on, almost all of them are as good as eachother, its just pricing issues. remington primers are the most expensive going, and they perform just OK.

the pre primed hulls that are used by cartridge manufacturers are the same as the ones they sell as individual components. the homeloading market is nonexistant to dedicate resources to making limp primers.

Yes that's what I think the same with powder

I have some us data that load 410 with longshot powder

Steel shot with blue dot and herco

And many more

And if you look on lee loadall data

It tells you the shot weight powder type bush no

One for plastic shells with paper base wad

One for plastic shells with plastic base wad

It's got that federal 209A primers are high energy use a bush one size smaller

i`d prefer the data from powder companys, its higher quality. i wouldnt generally rely on using a smaller bushing with a hotter primer.

i use pretty dense powders, and the next bushing down only reduces the powder charge about 0.4grain. not a fat lot.

 

unless the data, has both pressure and speed data, i`d call it slightly suspect. there are some privately published recipes that confirm the data that doesnt have any quality information.

Edited March 26, 2013 by cookoff013

[Floating Chamber]

Oh what a tangled web we weave.....

For good 12 gauge shells

Stick to Cheddite CX1000/2000 and AS or A1 powders and shoot safely away.

[turbo33]

Oh what a tangled web we weave.....

For good 12 gauge shells

Stick to Cheddite CX1000/2000 and AS or A1 powders and shoot safely away.

 

I have some 70mm shells to reload in 12g. 30grms. I have the height of the over shot card and fibre wad sorted. Can you advise how many grains of vectan A1 to use. I may switch to AS later on, its just I have some A1.

Thanks.

[00buck]

1.60grams of A1

[Floating Chamber]

1.60grams of A1

That's approx what I use, but I work in grains.

 

1.6 x 15.432 = 24.69 grains.

[sitsinhedges]

Folkestone Engineering lists some useful data for A1

 

http://####.co.uk/vecta1.htm