The death penalty - what do you know?

[unapalomablanca]

Death penalty has no place in a modern, civilized society. Prisons should focus on rehabilitation first and foremost, bring the reoffending rates down vs this "hard on crime" rubbish rhetoric which fails to address reoffending rates (see Norway vs US ). Prisons serve society, reoffending rates should be priority not people's personal satisfaction About being "tough on crime" which seems to be a pointless , expensive exercise.

Dont you see the irony? We are miles from a civilized society. The stuff you spout is the same social experiment that has been inflicted on the uk for 50years. It comes with its own propaganda labels, such as 'life will mean life', 'prison doesnt work', 'care in the community', 'the war on drugs' and the one you opened up with, plus many more. Its called liberalism or socialism and it is a busted flush, eveyone knows it, but it just gets given different names and constant relaunches. And this word 'modern' is another propaganda word. i mean things were 'modern' for people 100 years ago, a meaningless term, for a rubbish political experiment.

[Gimlet]

 

But as there is no actual written "covenant", can people opt out of the system if their needs were not met?

 

Of course they can't. By doing so they become criminalised themselves and the justice system will turn on them, usually with far more enthusiasm and relish than it ever managed to summon against the real criminals.

[Vince Green]

Did anyone see that programme on TV about a month back about two young women both about late 20s who got released from Holloway then followed their separate struggles on the outside before they both separately re-offended to get back. There was also a young black guy who did much the same.

 

They all were much happier in prison, they saw it as their home. It was their world, safe, secure, warm, ordered. Outside there was fear, worry and stress. They couldn't cope with it.

 

There must be a lot like that

[unapalomablanca]

Did anyone see that programme on TV about a month back about two young women both about late 20s who got released from Holloway then followed their separate struggles on the outside before they both separately re-offended to get back. There was also a young black guy who did much the same.

 

They all were much happier in prison, they saw it as their home. It was their world, safe, secure, warm, ordered. Outside there was fear, worry and stress. They couldn't cope with it.

 

There must be a lot like that

well, you just said it all vince!!! u.k is as soft as a marshmallow, so is europe.

[gazzthompson]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1986002,00.html

 

 

Within two years of their release, 20% of Norway's prisoners end up back in jail. In the U.K. and the U.S., the figure hovers between 50% and 60%. Of course, a low level of criminality gives Norway a massive advantage. Its prison roll lists a mere 3,300, or 69 per 100,000 people, compared with 2.3 million in the U.S., or 753 per 100,000 — the highest rate in the world.

[geordieh]

Question for you Geordieh, if that was allowed to happen, what would have happened with say segregation in the south of the US? we need some protection in place.

Hi Keg

Unfortunately I don't have all the answers but the problem is it has gone too far the other way now.As soon as you say no to these people now, they start shouting discrimination and play the race card.Even the ****** are doing it now.I have been a Prison Officer for the last 25 years when I first started an Asian inside was a rarity now there are thousands.One of the travelling brotherhood threatened to poach my pheasants when he was released, I told him if I caught him I would shoot his dog he then got onto his brief(on legal aid)and said I was being racist to gypsies.At the hearing I was found to have no case to answer.As for rehabilitation most of the people in prison don't want to be rehabilitated most of them in their own words will tell you it is better to make £300 a day from crime than £300 a week honestly.And they don't have to get up early in the morning to do it.After reading the records of some of these scum and seeing what they have done hanging is far too easy on them.And before anybody asks could I be hangman,with pleasure

Geordie

[JonathanL]

Death penalty has no place in a modern, civilized society. Prisons should focus on rehabilitation first and foremost, bring the reoffending rates down vs this "hard on crime" rubbish rhetoric which fails to address reoffending rates (see Norway vs US ). Prisons serve society, reoffending rates should be priority not people's personal satisfaction About being "tough on crime" which seems to be a pointless , expensive exercise.

 

No. As another poster has mentioned; the primary purpose of prisons (and of the criminal justice system as a whole) should be the protection of people who are law abiding from those who are not. Rehabilitation may be one of the methods by which to acoumplish that but it should not be the reason that prisons exist.

 

J.

Edited June 11, 2013 by JonathanL

[Uncle Albert]

Everyone talks about the prisoner's rights but what about the victim's rights? A life taken by some idiot. What about the victim's family?

[Gimlet]

Did anyone see that programme on TV about a month back about two young women both about late 20s who got released from Holloway then followed their separate struggles on the outside before they both separately re-offended to get back. There was also a young black guy who did much the same.

 

They all were much happier in prison, they saw it as their home. It was their world, safe, secure, warm, ordered. Outside there was fear, worry and stress. They couldn't cope with it.

 

There must be a lot like that

 

Which reinforces the need for justice to be retributive and punative. As well as protecting the law abiding, It should punish and deter or it is nothing more than a grossly expensive extension of social services.

There are millions of people who struggle to cope in our overheated, overpopulated, unnatural society. Modern life is toxic. They may turn to drink, they may retreat into fantasy wherever they can find it, they may commit suicide, they may die of stress-induced cancer, they may merely struggle to sleep at night or suffer chronic discontent and worry. But most people, however unhappy they may be, do not commit felonies against their fellow citizens to gain the refuge of institutionalisation. Those who do are weak, cowardly and selfish, and a penal system that indulges them is utterly dysfunctional.

[gazzthompson]

Everyone talks about the prisoner's rights but what about the victim's rights? A life taken by some idiot. What about the victim's family?

 

What rights? The right for revenge?

[Gimlet]

 

What rights? The right for revenge?

 

In effect, yes. The right to justice. The right to see punishment exacted in their name. The symbol of justice is a pair of balance scales, not a one-way slide. Victims have the right to see those scales restored to balance.

[VikingRebel]

I'm somewhat on the fence with the death penalty. On the one hand, I do believe there are some people who are simply too dangerous to be kept alive, but on the other hand you have the issue of innocent people being wrongfully convicted and sentenced to death, and whilst in this day and age, with modern forensic evidence that is less likely to happen, but there is still always a slight risk.

 

I would definitely like to see whole life tariffs utilised far more frequently for the worst violent offenders. Basically if you take a person's life in cold blood, or completely destroy somebody's life and their mental wellbeing through rape, extreme violence etc, then you should go to prison until you die.

[subsonicnat]

An Arab Prince once came on the TV some years back, And it made a lot of sense:

When asked why they Chopped hands off and gave public executions, Did they Not think it Barbaric::

His answer was very good, He looked at this Country and the way it is going with all the Crimes and Murders,Mugging, Violence, Burglary, Rapes Etc Etc.. He Said "He Wondered Who The Barbarians Were" :

Cracking answer I thought:

[Gimlet]

 

I would definitely like to see whole life tariffs utilised far more frequently for the worst violent offenders. Basically if you take a person's life in cold blood, or completely destroy somebody's life and their mental wellbeing through rape, extreme violence etc, then you should go to prison until you die.

 

We'll have to withdraw from the EU and the ECHR first then. Otherwise we'll soon be granting more rights to convicted criminals than to their victims. Prisoners are to get the vote now at the EU's insistance. No wonder prison is a lifestyle choice.

[JonathanL]

 

We'll have to withdraw from the EU and the ECHR first then. Otherwise we'll soon be granting more rights to convicted criminals than to their victims. Prisoners are to get the vote now at the EU's insistance. No wonder prison is a lifestyle choice.

 

The EU and the ECHR are not the same thing. Withdrawing from the EU will not result in the repeal of the HRA.

 

Have a look at murder sentencing since the Criminal Justice Act 2003 established statutory rules to govern it. Minimum terms (the term a person has to serve before they can apply for release on licence - the punishment part) are generally much longer these days. A court can impose a full life term whereas it could not before when the tarrif was set by a politician. Indeed, there would be circumstances where any court would be unable to find reasons not to impose a full life term.

 

My personal opinion is that the starting point sentence for any murder should be a full life term. That, however, is not currently the case according to the law we have. However, it is far better than it was and a lot more murderers will find themselves facing very long terms inside.

 

J.

[Gimlet]

 

The EU and the ECHR are not the same thing. Withdrawing from the EU will not result in the repeal of the HRA.

 

 

Right. I will make my meaning clearer. The ECHR (Strasbourg) has ruled against Britain for enforcing a continued ban on prisoner voting following a legal appeal from prisoners. ECHR naval-gazing today becomes EU law tomorrow. That is the relationship between the ECHR and the EU. The EU has already told the British Government it will take punative action against Britain if it does not comply with the ECHR ruling.

 

The EU and the ECHR are seperate bodies in the same way that hands and gloves are seperate objects.

Withdrawing from the EU will not release us from HRA, it is true, but we cannot rid ourselves of the infuence of HRA without leaving the EU.