naddan28 Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Hi guys, I have shot a couple of air rifles before and have now decided to get into shooting properly. Luckly i have found a couple of land owners who are willing to give me permission (one being a distant relative, i didnt realise owned a huge local farm!) but i have a couple of questions? Firstly, what is the standard etiquette regarding such shooting, espically disposing of any pigeons shot? As my uncle has a farm where he is happy for me to shoot pigeons etc i just wondered what the best method of disposal was? Secondly, what gun should i get for £150ish (with gunslip) for hunting? I was considering a GAMO 440 Hunter, Magnum or Shadow 1000 what does everyone think of these? Previously i considered buying a SMK Supergrade XS19 but the quality of these chinese guns i have read are very variable? Thirdly what clothing/ additonal equip would you recommend? I am seriously thinking a telescopic sight esp if i dont buy a GAMO with fibre's? Finally, what calibre would you get, .177 or .22? Its as stated above for hunting esp pigeons, crows and rabbits. Thanks in advance guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Blimey,all the questions you have asked could be debated over for days and you still wouldn't have a clear answer! However In my opinions.................... The only acceptable thing to do with what you shoot is to eat it. No excuses. £150 will buy you a second hand springer. Go for a BSA Lightning. Get one with a telescopic sight, whatever gun you go for. Additional items you will need are some army surplus jacket and trousers plus a pair of boots. Anything else can be got as and when you need it or funds become available. Other advice........................ Make sure you are a good enough shot BEFORE going onto live quarry. No excuses. HAve a search on here for answers to any questions you have. A lot of things have been gone into in great depth. But don't be afraid of asking if you cannot find the answers. Oh and welcome to the site! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 yeah I second what snakebite has said, just because you have permission dont rush in there and give air rifles a bad name, if you can use the farm(land) to practise on, then great, set some targets up at 30/35yds and practise, if you cant get groups of 5 at that distance, then dont shoot anything live, because wounding animals that fly/run away is what lowers the tone on air rifles secondly get to know what you can and cant shoot, dont just shoot anything that moves also a big YES to "if your gonna shoot it" then eat it, unless your popping rats that is, but wood pigeon is great, as is rabbit, squirrel, not tried rook yet, but Ill get there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conygree Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 as all above said plus for birds go for .177. zero up on paper plus for targets use old cartridges @ 30 m hit them every time and you are ready. 177 = more range + more penatration x loads of practice= more pigeons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Again bad advice PP No more range, no more penetration as such. a .177 and a .22 at legal limit have the same power. The difference is the .177 pellet will be faster, but smaller. They have similar terminal ballistics. You don't want penetration, you want the entire energy transmitted to the quarry. If it penetrates it won't be doing that. The .177 / .22 thing will rage on and on, but don't make your choice based on bad advice. The one thing we all agree on is that .177 has a flatter trajectory, that is less holdover required for longer ranges. Some say this makes it easier to shoot, some don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 The .177 / .22 thing will rage on and on, but don't make your choice based on bad advice. The one thing we all agree on is that .177 has a flatter trajectory, that is less holdover required for longer ranges. Oh yes the debate will go on forever and a day The .177 has the added advantage of being more forgiving on the range finding due to the flatter trajectory. But there again it needs something going for it as it is such a girlie calibre................. TAXI! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted November 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I wont go straight onto the land shooting like a muppet! The farmer as i said is family and i think actually wants to give me lessons (he never had a son or any male relations ). I have shot before as well so i am not copmletely new to air shooting, and as for eating pigeons, surely that is not good for anyones health being their status? I will be shooting rats as well so how do you dispose of them? Thanks guys for all the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatingisbest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 As for eating pigeons, surely that is not good for anyones health being their status? I will be shooting rats as well so how do you dispose of them? Thanks guys for all the help! Pigeons are perfectly fine to eat and taste great but aslong as they are not ferals they are fine With rats, some burn them others will throw them in the nearest hedge for charlie there are many other methods of disposal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 eating pigeon; you need to stop thinking of all pigeons in the same family group, wood pigeon are great for eating feral pigeon, the type you see at trafalga square or sitting under bridges are the no go ones, these carry more disease than rats, as they eat any **** laying around, woodies eat wholesome country foods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conway Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 there is an excuse to not eatin what you shoot, and ive come across it before. i dont know if you would still eat it ... but during the summer the dam flies managed to make their way into the shed while the rabbits were hung up in teh shed...well, surprise surprise the next day i found hundreds of tiny white oval fly eggs in both the rabbits. didnt eat them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted November 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 The other response to not eating what you kill is pro active land management. I was watching the country file the other day and they ran an interesting feature saying how a shooting estate had not enforced any form of pest countrol for five years and in those 5 years the number of song birds dropped by 50%! i would eat rabbit happily but as for pigeon, rat and squirrel i am somewhat dubious. I know most people dont agree with this attitude but responsible pest control is an important part of protection for some species and farming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Squirrel and Pigeon are fine eating. Don't nock it until you try it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatingisbest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 if the meat is perfectly edible, in my view if you either dont eat what you shoot or dont sell it to gamedealers you shouldnt be shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 If I was in your situation, I'd be looking for a second hand BSA lightning or supersport carbine. These are great guns for a great price. They are only about £200 new, and I got many kills with my supersport (cost me £60 second hand) before I upgraded to a pre charged gun. I've always gone for .177 too. I feel that if either calibre hits the right place, it will kill cleanly. As a .177 requires less accurate range judgement in the field (not always easy if it's getting dark etc) because of its flatter trajectory, that's the one to go for in my opinion. As the others have said, the distance you can group within a 1 inch circle every time is your maximum hunting range (up to 45m but not more). Good luck with the gun search, and well done for getting some land to shoot so soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted November 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Will local gamedealers buy crows & magpies then? Obviously i will give any money back to the farmer if i sell any, i imagine he might want something from the bag as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poacher Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 You must try pigeon it is one of my favorite meats and absolutely delicious...As for squirel can't say i've tried (not that hard up yet) it i think that might just be the tight northerners scabbing a free meal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatingisbest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Will local gamedealers buy crows & magpies then? Obviously i will give any money back to the farmer if i sell any, i imagine he might want something from the bag as well. gamedealers will only buy edible quarry, like pigeon and rabbit, farmers will not expect any money, he might ask for something from the bag, they sometimes do, but not all that common Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Corvids (magpies/rook/crow/jackies) are not generally regarded as edible, however I do now the yanks like to eat the odd crow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted November 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Corvids (magpies/rook/crow/jackies) are not generally regarded as edible, however I do now the yanks like to eat the odd crow Thanks, so how would you reccomend i dissposed of them, thanks for calling them Corvids! Thats cleared something up for me! I would like to thank all you guys you have been really helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipper Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Naddan28. first of all you will be looking at a second hand springer with scope and silencer for the £150ish you have budgited for. BSA Super Sport and lightning are good little springer for there money.(my first air rifle was a new super sport 15 yrs ago and I have still got it now) dont rush into buying the first gun you see there are thousands of bargain air guns out there mate. As for shooting live animals I strongly agree with what has been said about getting consistent groups of 1" with your pellets at atleast 25-30yrds before pointing your gun at animals Vermin or not they still deserve the respect of a humane kill. Thats not a dig at you mate . we all need to get used to our guns when we purchase a new one. practice on paper or any none living targets untill you have got to know your limits and the limits of the set up you are shooting with. As for .177 or .22 its your choice or what is available at the time of purchase. I have allways had .22 but I want to try a .177 in the near future. there is advantages and disadvantages to both calibers in my opinion. As for eating What you have shot rabbit and wood pigeon are fine(Look on the recipes section of the forum) you should try some you might be suprised. but as for disposing of what you shoot and dont /cant eat tie up in a carrier bag and dispose of in the bin. have you got a dog,cat or ferret, feeding them your quarry will save you money and will be healthier for them. Don't throw in the hedge if its near a foot path or the general publick might see it. it will look bad on you and fellow hunters shooter. Not forgeting safety But most of all Enjoy the experiance otherwise there is not mutch point in doing it. Hope this helps you mate. Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conygree Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Yep - I had always gone for .22 normally heavy with a big scope, so I recently bought light Evolution in .177 carbine with a light 1.5-5 WTC 30-30 scope just for high angle shooting. Taking it that my shooting is a constant , my kill - to - pellet rate is far higher with the .177. It was a surprise to me but with a gun rig 3lb lighter, and a 1ft shorter also with the pellets not 'balling up' with feathers or hitting a sack of acorns. Last Saturday x5 pellets = x5 pigeons (+ x2 corvids and x6 squirrels, a few extra pellets to finish a few squirrels off). My best day ever Tuesday (or happy hour for me) 16 squirrels with the .177, in an unshot wood on the edge of the estate. Here I found unless it was a head shot, the .177 pellets would go straight through their upper bodies an to be honest alot ran off needing a second shot, but I was reloading as fast as I could at one stage. Where with the .22 they normally had a spaz-attack, with an upper body shot, and a big 'pop' when hit. Eating - even my 14 yr old son loves pigeon breasts cooked in red wine in the woods all part of shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted December 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 I always worry with second hand items though, I am going to phone the farmer today, see whether he minds me practicing with targets on the land first, then move onto shooting quarry. Also found a local game dealer so taking heed from earlier advice i can sell anything onto them. Once again, thanks guys. You lads have been really helpful and given me some great advice, oh but sorry for starting the .1177 or .22 debate again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Will local gamedealers buy crows & magpies then? Obviously i will give any money back to the farmer if i sell any, i imagine he might want something from the bag as well. gamedealers will only buy edible quarry, like pigeon and rabbit, farmers will not expect any money, he might ask for something from the bag, they sometimes do, but not all that common A bottle of scotch at Christmas is always a good idea as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Boils down to what you are comfortable with, and with that comes confidence. At high power (legal) both are capable of taking anything on the quarry list at reasonable range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 there is an excuse to not eatin what you shoot, and ive come across it before. i dont know if you would still eat it ... but during the summer the dam flies managed to make their way into the shed while the rabbits were hung up in teh shed...well, surprise surprise the next day i found hundreds of tiny white oval fly eggs in both the rabbits. didnt eat them! Firstly I would question the need to hang rabbits anyway, down to taste I know but that's my opinion. Secondly keep the rabbits in a "secure area" if you must hang them! Putting them straight into the fridge or freezer solves this as well. (Skinned ofcourse!) The reasons you gave for not eating them are just more excuses and not valid! Corvids (magpies/rook/crow/jackies) are not generally regarded as edible, however I do now the yanks like to eat the odd crow If you are going to eat crows or rooks then get the branchers in may. It's an old Victorian tradition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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