Schmidt & Bender zeroing?

[rtaylor]

Bought a 8x56 S&B of my cousin last weekend. Very happy with the clarity etc.

 

Came to have a go at zeroing it today and as I've changed the mounts I knew it would be miles off. I had it shooting on the paper at around 20m (I know it was close but I needed to see where it was shooting first).

 

However couple of issues when I tried to adjust the cross hairs:

1. which way is up and which is down, it's marked H & T (I think)?

2. is the left and right the opposite to other scopes? I.e. does screwing it anti clockwise pull it right and clockwise left?

3. when I was adjusting it left and right (is L & R left and right in german), I needed it to go further right but it seemed to be at it's limit, I'm using warne mounts, could these be set up wrong?

4. and finally what is the small set screw for in the turret?

 

Never had these problems with cheeper scopes so I don't want to co ck it up.

 

Cheers

Edited October 12, 2013 by rtaylor

[White Lodge]

Try this.

 

http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/downloads/information/category/5-instruction-manuals.html

[bullet boy]

I've always said Hup and Town-UP and DOWN.If this makes any sense-works for me.

[malkiserow]

And how does the smaller screw go within the larger dial?

[rtaylor]

Cheers guys.

Just had another look and read the manual (who does that?) seen the little black dot for the indicator. I've set them both to middle. Just need some more ammo now and try again.

Has anyone had it where it's fully adjusted one way but you still need more? I assume something is wrong if it does that?

[dadioles]

Use shims to avoid adjusting your scope anywhere near the end stops.

 

Left and right should not be too much of a problem unless your mounts are a bit off. In theory the scope should look straight down the barrel with the turrets centred.

 

As far as "up and down" is concerned, it is quite easy to run out of adjustment on some scopes and shimming (or using adjustable mounts) is quite normal.

 

Start off with the turret adjusted to its middle position. Wind it gently until it stops and then count the clicks all the way to the other extreme. Now wind it half way back again.

 

Purists would advise you to set it to the optical centre. Some scopes are set so that the optical centre is several click off mechanical centre to allow for more adjustment as ranges increase.

 

If you browse the internet and see how a scope really works with the central "tube" held in place by springs you will appreciate why you do not want the turrets adjusted anywhere near their extremes.

 

You have a quality scope and it deserves to be setup properly. Surprisingly few shooters seem to appreciate how to get the best out of their scopes.

[rtaylor]

Getting the mechanical centre on the S&B should be easy enough as it has the indicator to show how far it's wound out or in.

 

What material of shim would you recommend? I spoke to my uncle earlier and he said he has used tin foil folded up.

[fieldwanderer]

you can buy strips of shim or scrounge it from a machine shop - however it's usually metal and will likely scratch the tube. I'd use a strip of milk bottle or similar (it just needs to be something quite solid that won't expand and contract with temperature).

 

Perhaps, you'd be better off honeing your rings to start with though.........

Edited October 13, 2013 by fieldwanderer

[welshwarrior]

H is for Head T is for Toes that's how I remember it.

[kent]

Use shims to avoid adjusting your scope anywhere near the end stops.

 

Left and right should not be too much of a problem unless your mounts are a bit off. In theory the scope should look straight down the barrel with the turrets centred.

 

As far as "up and down" is concerned, it is quite easy to run out of adjustment on some scopes and shimming (or using adjustable mounts) is quite normal.

 

Start off with the turret adjusted to its middle position. Wind it gently until it stops and then count the clicks all the way to the other extreme. Now wind it half way back again.

 

Purists would advise you to set it to the optical centre. Some scopes are set so that the optical centre is several click off mechanical centre to allow for more adjustment as ranges increase.

 

If you browse the internet and see how a scope really works with the central "tube" held in place by springs you will appreciate why you do not want the turrets adjusted anywhere near their extremes.

 

You have a quality scope and it deserves to be setup properly. Surprisingly few shooters seem to appreciate how to get the best out of their scopes.

 

Don't pack a good scope like this, its just a trick for cheap scopes and low power air guns. It wont be needed anyway and you risk crimping or worse ie. bending the tube. If you must add angle or adjustment to such a thing buy a sloped mount base

[Bewsher500]

beat me too it!

if you really want to keep it centred use windage adjustable mounts or properly machined optilocks or other "lined" scope rings

[dadioles]

Shimming is a standard technique and not just for "cheap scopes". A lot of nonsense it talked about "distorting tubes". People like Brownells sell shim kits and Bushnell include a shim guide with their scopes.

 

You can cut suitable material from the side of a drinks can using a pair of scissors or use old photographic film (not seen much these days.

 

As I said, use adjustable mounts if you can but not everyone can afford to buy another set of mounts so cut your own shims.

 

Unless you are incredibly careless and rather stupid, there is no chance at all of damaging your scope by applying a shim to your existing mounts.

 

Shim the front base for additional down movement and the rear base for additional up movement.

 

A single thickness of "negative" or "coke tin side wall" will probably be sufficient, maybe two layers if you need it. I would not use folded tin (aluminium) foil and "honing" the rings is too difficult to do well.

 

Shimming for windage is not something I have ever had to do. If your scope is requiring a lot of adjustment horizontally it may be that the scope mounts were badly aligned to the barrel at manufacture or (more likely) that your mounting rings are unsuitable for your rifle, or perhaps even fitted the wrong way round, try swapping them over, it seems illogical but it can make a difference.

 

The more expensive scopes are often the ones with limited adjustment as they are optically more "fussy" in order to achieve the best results and consequently needing shims or adjustable mounts.

[Beardo]

As dadioles said, i use strips cut from a fizzy drink can. worth swapping the mounts round first though to see if that makes a difference.

i always remember H as Higher on S&Bs.

[rtaylor]

Didn't think of swapping the mounts round. I'll try them in some different positions. Thanks for the advice.

 

I've order a Bushnell boresight so hopefully that should give me a clearer/easier idea without wasting ammo.

 

Cheers guys

[dadioles]

Shame about the boresight, I'm afraid you have wasted your money there but if you are anything like me it is another gadget to play with.

[rtaylor]

Why a waste of money? Will it not give me a rough idea? I understand the fine tuning will have to be done with live rounds.

 

Going back to the shims, assuming swapping the mounts doesn't work. To get more windage right would I shim the front mount on the left, or both front and back?

[kent]

Bore sights are of limited use, as is zeroing at 20yds. Shim it at your own peril, if you need to shim a scope in a centre fire rifle to get on at 100yds there is something wrong. Put the scope in good mounts take some good ammo down the range and set it up at 100 yds, you only need to get one on the paper to dial in from (this can be done looking through the bore by eye the old fashioned way for that 1st shot)

[malkiserow]

Even on a centrefire, is it not worth putting a round into the paper at 30 yards just to see where you are on the paper and save any "off the paper shots"? Then move out to 100Yds.

[dadioles]

As Kent says, you can bore sight by simply looking down the bore. The laser type fall into the "under the kitchen sink" gadget bracket and you will be hard pressed to see the laser dot on paper at any useful distance in daylight.

 

It helps to hold the gun securely in a vice, it is easy to "bodge something up" to hold the gun steady in a fixed position. Remove the bolt and look down the bore and identify some distant object, I use my neighbours tv aerial approx 100 yards away, then without moving the gun, adjust the scope to sight on the same object. That does the same job as a laser bore sight. Obviously it does not take into account the trajectory of your ammunition but it is a good starting point and no shots have been fired yet.

 

A first shot onto a big piece of paper at 20 yards or so should give you most of the information you need.

 

I am a bit concerned about shimming for windage and have never had to do this myself. Shimming under the scope either front or back is normal and easy as there is plenty of space to do this because the top half of the scope mount screws down onto the bottom half. When it comes to sideways shimming the scope is normally a tight fit and there is not really much (any?) space for a shim.

 

If the mounts are correct for the rifle everything should be in a straight line and should line up quite nicely horizontally and well within the normal adjustment range of the scope. If you are finding that, when mechanically centred, you are running out of horizontal adjustment something may be a bit wrong with the setup and a bit of advice first hand from a gunsmith or experienced shooter may help. Maybe your mounts are off centre so the scope is sitting slightly to one side of the barrel or one mount is fitted one way round and the second mount the other introducing a twist. It needs to be carefully investigated.

[kent]

Even on a centrefire, is it not worth putting a round into the paper at 30 yards just to see where you are on the paper and save any "off the paper shots"? Then move out to 100Yds.

If you look at your full adjustment range in minutes that equates roughly to inches at 100 yds, in short no it not going to help if your well off you have something a miss. short range ie 25 yds each full minute is only 1/4" whish is why people struggle to get airgun on at short range - especially silly high mounted ones with objectives as big as Grandmas back side! Hence they pack the rear to get some extra adjustment range, then carry the practice over to centrefires

[rtaylor]

I am using warne mounts, which clamp side to side rather than the usual top and bottom. I'm going to try and swap them round to try and get it more mechanically centred, the is where the aid of a bore sight at around 30 yards should become useful. Then move back and use live ammo for the proper zero.

 

Hopefully by switching the mounts around I can avoid shimming but we shall see.

[EMcC]

German 'scopes marked H & T are as below.

H = Hoch = High/Up

T = Tief = Down/Deep/low

[1066]

If you do your initial zero like THIS it doesn't matter what the markings on the scope are, which way they go or whether they are marked in mm/.25"/.125" clicks. A quick bore sight with the bolt removed and single shot at 30 yards will get 98% of the work done.

[kent]

I am using warne mounts, which clamp side to side rather than the usual top and bottom. I'm going to try and swap them round to try and get it more mechanically centred, the is where the aid of a bore sight at around 30 yards should become useful. Then move back and use live ammo for the proper zero.

 

Hopefully by switching the mounts around I can avoid shimming but we shall see.

Get hold of a long bar the same diameter as your scope tube, your eyes will soon tell you if you have run out in relation to the barrel. Oh I hate those Warne BTW, fit some proper rings and save a heap of messing IMO.

 

No bore sight on something as far away as possible not as near as possible, it reduces the error

[dadioles]

Get hold of a long bar the same diameter as your scope tube, your eyes will soon tell you if you have run out in relation to the barrel. Oh I hate those Warne BTW, fit some proper rings and save a heap of messing IMO.

 

No bore sight on something as far away as possible not as near as possible, it reduces the error

 

I agree with Kent.

 

It still bothers me that you are having problems with windage. If the turret which controls horizontal movement is mechanically centred you should not be far off. A few clicks should be enough to zero for windage. If it is requiring a lot of adjustment (you suggested that you were at the extreme) there is something wrong with the alignment of the scope. It is either a faulty scope, bad or wrongly fitted rings, a bent barrel or a barrel which has the scope mounts out of true at manufacture.