Attracting Wood pigeons

[HW682]

I have read the General licences for protection of crops and for Protection of Public Health and I cannot find any statement in those licences that forbids the use of grain or seeds to attract Woodpigeon to be shot.

It does not state that the crop, or land, should be specified i.e the Woodpigeon will, at some point, cause damage to a crop albeit on a property other than the one I am shooting over and that is sufficient.

 

I may be wrong about this and, if I am, I would like to be pointed to the specific legislation.

 

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/wml-gl04_tcm6-24149.pdf

 

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ourwork/regulation/wildlife/licences/generallicences.aspx

 

 

You won't find anything that forbids using feed to attract them into an area for shooting because it isn't there.

 

To comply with the general licencenses, the birds have to be causing a problem and you have to be satisfied that non-lethal methods don't work (ignoring non-native species of course.) Only then is it legal to shoot them.

Once you have established that is legal to shoot them, then you are permitted to draw them into a cetain area where it is more effective and safer to shoot them. To do that there is no difference between using artificial decoys or food bait.

 

If it is legal to use a decoy in a given circumstance, then it is legal to use bait in that same circumstance.

If it is not legal to use a decoy, then equally it is not legal to use bait.

 

It is not considered sporting and is very controversial - but that doesn't make it illegal.

I have confirmation in writing from Natural England of this.

I have asked several times for someone to show proof otherwise - but it never comes.

Edited November 19, 2013 by HW682

[gunner1000]

why don't you put some seed down for a couple of days leave it them come back a few days later then if there still there technically you haven't enticed them 1 day you wanted to feed them then didn't like them any more nothing wrong with that

[pegasus bridge]

why don't you put some seed down for a couple of days leave it them come back a few days later then if there still there technically you haven't enticed them 1 day you wanted to feed them then didn't like them any more nothing wrong with that

Have a read of HW682's post! The baiting in itself is not illegal if the terms of the Licences have been met.

[FalconFN]

 

 

You won't find anything that forbids using feed to attract them into an area for shooting because it isn't there.

 

To comply with the general licencenses, the birds have to be causing a problem and you have to be satisfied that non-lethal methods don't work (ignoring non-native species of course.) Only then is it legal to shoot them.

Once you have established that is legal to shoot them, then you are permitted to draw them into a cetain area where it is more effective and safer to shoot them. To do that there is no difference between using artificial decoys or food bait.

 

If it is legal to use a decoy in a given circumstance, then it is legal to use bait in that same circumstance.

If it is not legal to use a decoy, then equally it is not legal to use bait.

 

It is not considered sporting and is very controversial - but that doesn't make it illegal.

I have confirmation in writing from Natural England of this.

I have asked several times for someone to show proof otherwise - but it never comes.

Thanks for that, very interesting. I personally wouldn't equate the use of decoys with the use of feed as decoys will bring existing pigeons into range and can be removed from the area immediately after you stop shooting. Feed on the other hand, will need to be there for some time to get noticed, and during the time that you are NOT shooting you are encouraging a pest into an area that you are supposedly trying to protect. kind of defeats to object to me, and on the face of it goes against the caveat that all reasonable measures have to be taken to discourage them....but if NE say it's fine then who am I to disagree.

[HW682]

Thanks for that, very interesting. I personally wouldn't equate the use of decoys with the use of feed as decoys will bring existing pigeons into range and can be removed from the area immediately after you stop shooting. Feed on the other hand, will need to be there for some time to get noticed, and during the time that you are NOT shooting you are encouraging a pest into an area that you are supposedly trying to protect. kind of defeats to object to me, and on the face of it goes against the caveat that all reasonable measures have to be taken to discourage them....but if NE say it's fine then who am I to disagree.

 

Interesting point about leaving the feed to act as a longer term attractant. I suppose the onus would be on the user to clear it up.

Just the same as not leaving decoys permanently in place.

 

Think of putting a dead rabbit at the side of a flocked decoy for crows. Whenever it is legal to put out the decoy to shoot crows - it is allowed to have the bait at the side of it. Whenever it isn't legal to put out the decoy - then equally it isn't legal to put out the rabbit.

 

There is no differentiation in the rules between crows and pigeons (other than the fact woodies may be sold for food).

 

The main point was that once justification has be shown for shooting the use of a bait per se is not outlawed.

There are various methods outlawed by the WCA 1981 such as sound recordings, mirrors/lights (excepting ferrals) etc but baiting in range to shoot isn't one of them.

Edited November 20, 2013 by HW682

[KFC]

Two other aspects of the licences which often get a wrong interpretation. One is that a person only has to be 'satisfied' that all other methods won't work, they don't have to have tried them.

The other is that it states that failure to comply 'may' mean an offence 'could' have been committed. Failure to comply is not an absolute offence.

'In respect to the species listed at paragraph 2(i)(a) above, this licence can only be relied on in

circumstances where the authorised person is satisfied that appropriate legal methods of resolving

the problem such as scaring and proofing are either ineffective or impracticable'

'Failure to act within the purpose of this licence as set out in paragraph1 or failure to comply with the

terms and conditions may mean that the licence cannot be relied upon and an offence could therefore be

committed. The maximum penalty available for an offence under the Act is, at the time of the issue of

this licence, a level 5 fine (£5000) and/or a six month custodial sentence'

I don't want to be the one to try these things out in court but it's certainly very woolly and good fodder to be discussed on a forum such as this.

Also, if it leads to discussions such as this between experienced shooters then it certainly isn't a stupid question for the OP to ask.

[Steve_in_Devon]

Thanks for all the comments on this. I have been reading through everyone views.

Time to get some decoys.

[Fisherman Mike]

The baiting of wood pigeon to the gun wouldn't be covered by the general licence in any event and the use of decoys assumes you are shooting the birds in the crop field being predated so it technically isn't illegal. However the Countryside and Wildlife act would cover the baiting and shooting of birds, even the lowly wood pigeon is protected and which would be strictly illegal...

 

So if you decide to attract woodpigeon to a field where they wouldn't normally feed by piling copious amounts of grain then you will be open to prosecution under the Countryside and Wildlife act...

 

Its akin to shooting wood pigeon in your garden...if they are nipping the tops off the brassicas or stealing the chicken feed than they are fair game if however you shoot them off the bird feeder or the bird table then you will be committing an offence...once the nosey neighbour has reported you to the plod...good bye certificate.! I know this to be true as I speak from first hand experience.

 

In short stick to the decoys and to crop fields (woodland roosts after January ) and their boundaries and you cant go wrong.

 

Pigeons aren't stupid so I would be very surprised if you could out sufficient bait to attract them in significant numbers anyway, especially if it doesn't look natural, so baiting would be a complete waste of time and money apart from being morally indefensible.

 

Don't get too hung up on the technicalities of the General Licence we all interpret it differently and dare I say it most of us shoot because we enjoy the sport not because of crop protection which is why so many of us are keen to go out and shoot something every day and get pretty stressed when there are no birds about...Why I don't know cus if they aint there they cant be doing any damage.! This is why I go fishing for long periods of the year and certainly wouldn't go looking for birds to shoot just for the hell of it.

 

PS if you want to PM me your name and address I will stick half a dozen or so shell decoys in the post for you which I no longer use save you buying some.

 

Also if you intend to use an air rifle concealment will be paramount so make sure you are well hidden and your rifle is zeroed spot on at your target range, alighting pigeons don't hang around for long unless they are young stupid birds and you will only get a quick window of opportunity to get the shot off.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Fisherman Mike

[Beardo]

You do not need to be shooting them on the crop they are currently feeding on - there's nothing written in law that states that, it's perfectly feasible to be shooting them to prevent future theoretical damage.

Otherwise you wouldn't be able to roost shoot!

[deny essex]

I seem to remember a few years ago a case where a guy fed a field of grass with bird seed for the intention of shooting pigeon.

He got prosecuted.

I might add not for feeding or shooting pigeon, but for growing some funny weedy plant

Seems the bird seed had it mixed in, think he got let off, but was the 3rd time I have heard that with bird seed, one was the mother in law feeding the birds.

[Piebob]

You do not need to be shooting them on the crop they are currently feeding on - there's nothing written in law that states that, it's perfectly feasible to be shooting them to prevent future theoretical damage.

Otherwise you wouldn't be able to roost shoot!

.....or shoot them on a flight-line