proposed minimum wage rise

[JohnFreeman1310]

swap then then if they are better off.

 

KW

I'm on 11.22 so I don't need to swap but why are they entitled to working tax credit and such my bills are increasing also. Why should the minimum wage rise every year and I'm 22 and did my time working on 4.98 ph whilst running a house and was not entitled to tax credit.

 

John

[aris]

 

That's right but the only way I could see that happening is to get more people working and getting more tax into the system and less going out, although that would rely on the government actually dropping some taxes due to more coming in and less going out!

 

You need a government with the balls to:

 

1) Build lots and lots of houses to make them more affordable. Difficult as homeowners are voters, and far too many people are using the family home as a form of a retirement fund.

 

2) Cut spending, cut energy taxes, and create more supply in the energy market to bring prices down.

[bullet1747]

proposed minimum wage rise i think about time they say it will be a substantial rise id like to see £10 ph your thoughts gentlemen.

 

is this another we will do it after we get re elected promise?

recon ya live in cucko land

[kdubya]

recon ya live in cucko land

you a brummie then?

 

KW

[keg]

What will happen is an inflation spiral as happened in the 70s .

 

if the govt starts to control energy and housing, are we not going to turn into a communist state?

 

Oscar's dad, I hear what you are saying but a university education and degree is not a guaranteed passport to a well paid job.

 

Don't be quick to criticise the business owners that buy a big car or villa, they take the risks and will have struggled at times, why can't they enjoy the fruits of their work.

 

If you don't like your wage, find a job that pays more. I started on £30.00 a week on the farm at 16, knew I wanted more but was not sure what but just tried my best and tried different roles.

 

Lastly, it's not just the higher wage, it's NI contributions and all the employer stuff that employees do not see.

 

You do not make a country richer by making the rich poorer.

[daz2202]

prices don't need to go up it depends on how greedy the bosses are

 

I remember my first job we kept being told there no rises this year times are hard

 

But the owner still bought his flash car and had his villa in Spain it was all down to greed

I work blimin hard over 60 hours per week running my own business. I averagely take around £500 per week. (Average I just said there are good and bad weeks) I pay my staff as I mentioned earlier. Of the staff I have 2 are on minimum wage and the other 2 are just under £10 per hour. Like I said if they were all on £10 per hour for the 40 hours I would earn about £50 per week for my 60 hours !!!

 

Is that fair when it's me that takes all the risk, with my house as guarantee to most of my suppliers and it's me that does all the extra book work at night etc etc etc.

 

This does not mean that I should shut my business down. It means I control my costs and run a tight ship. My staff are all happy and jolly and I bonus them when I can if targets are exceeded.

 

If you pay all your staff over £10 per hour I would guess that they are skilled and trained and qualified. My staff are ... In a kind way of putting it 'unqualified tryers' but they all work, don't claim and enjoy a beer with me after work on a Friday.

 

Daz

[aris]

What will happen is an inflation spiral as happened in the 70s .

 

if the govt starts to control energy and housing, are we not going to turn into a communist state?

.

I never said 'control', but they can influence the market via policy changes. Big difference.

[Thunderbird]

but we would also have to stop agencies advertising abroad for staff, as the agencies don't need to abide by the min wage rule hence thousands of jobs in the UK advertised in Poland or Romania.

 

 

 

Hmmm. Not quite right I think. I'm not sure what the min wage is in Poland or anywhere else in the EU but if they actually work here in the UK they get the min wage. If they don't the employer is breaking the law. There are loads of specialist employment "law shops" springing up catering for (especially, but others too) Polish workers and you can bet that a great many EU workers know their rights more than UK workers do.

[castletyne]

I work blimin hard over 60 hours per week running my own business. I averagely take around £500 per week. (Average I just said there are good and bad weeks) I pay my staff as I mentioned earlier. Of the staff I have 2 are on minimum wage and the other 2 are just under £10 per hour. Like I said if they were all on £10 per hour for the 40 hours I would earn about £50 per week for my 60 hours !!!

 

Is that fair when it's me that takes all the risk, with my house as guarantee to most of my suppliers and it's me that does all the extra book work at night etc etc etc.

 

This does not mean that I should shut my business down. It means I control my costs and run a tight ship. My staff are all happy and jolly and I bonus them when I can if targets are exceeded.

 

If you pay all your staff over £10 per hour I would guess that they are skilled and trained and qualified. My staff are ... In a kind way of putting it 'unqualified tryers' but they all work, don't claim and enjoy a beer with me after work on a Friday.

 

Daz

 

 

I pay carpet fitters and floorlayers its job and knock they average £110 per day thats for 9.30 till the jobs finished normaly between 3 and 5

[keg]

I never said 'control', but they can influence the market via policy changes. Big difference.

Really... go on, I'm all ears. This is a new approach.

[kdubya]

 

Hmmm. Not quite right I think. I'm not sure what the min wage is in Poland or anywhere else in the EU but if they actually work here in the UK they get the min wage. If they don't the employer is breaking the law. There are loads of specialist employment "law shops" springing up catering for (especially, but others too) Polish workers and you can bet that a great many EU workers know their rights more than UK workers do.

nope your wrong eu legislation has a loophole in it that allows the undercutting of national minimum wages by agencies, don't take it to hard

 

KW

[daz2202]

 

 

I pay carpet fitters and floorlayers its job and knock they average £110 per day thats for 9.30 till the jobs finished normaly between 3 and 5

So it's a labour intensive job which you are obviously charging them out at a much higher rate than you pay. That's business. My staff answer the phone and deliver plumbing parts with a mark up usually under 10 % !!!

 

Also carpet cannot be fitted by the internet ! So your competition isn't in everyone's face all day every day. I quote someone £30. They find it for £28 online and buy it. That's why my costs must be as low as possible

[Thunderbird]

nope your wrong eu legislation has a loophole in it that allows the undercutting of national minimum wages by agencies, don't take it to hard

 

KW

 

Point us all to a link to that legislation then please, hot-shot. Don't worry, I won't take it hard. Or soft either.

[keg]

So it's a labour intensive job which you are obviously charging them out at a much higher rate than you pay. That's business. My staff answer the phone and deliver plumbing parts with a mark up usually under 10 % !!!

 

Also carpet cannot be fitted by the internet ! So your competition isn't in everyone's face all day every day. I quote someone £30. They find it for £28 online and buy it. That's why my costs must be as low as possible

Mark up or Margin?

 

I agree that the internet I skiiling anything with a specific model number or that can be compared like say, a Grunfoss 12345xyz pump or a TV. BTW I agree with keeping costs as low as possible.

[aris]

Really... go on, I'm all ears. This is a new approach.

 

For homebuilding? Increase supply - for example - something they have considered already - tell the large home building firms they will lose the planning they have on their land unless they start building on it within 6 months (and complete within 18). Just one example.

 

For energy? Increase supply - fracking comes to mind - perhaps not palatable to some, but it brought down gas prices in the US massively. Just one example.

 

Control is something else - like what Labour proposed - capping energy prices. Takes no account of the dynamics of supply and demand pricing. That is utter madness.

[kdubya]

 

Point us all to a link to that legislation then please, hot-shot. Don't worry, I won't take it hard. Or soft either.

there you go you can look it up yourself for more detail if you want they tell me google is good

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exclusive-ed-miliband-will-block-cheap-foreign-staff-loophole-if-labour-wins-in-2015-9039194.html

[keg]

I work blimin hard over 60 hours per week running my own business. I averagely take around £500 per week. (Average I just said there are good and bad weeks) I pay my staff as I mentioned earlier. Of the staff I have 2 are on minimum wage and the other 2 are just under £10 per hour. Like I said if they were all on £10 per hour for the 40 hours I would earn about £50 per week for my 60 hours !!!

 

Is that fair when it's me that takes all the risk, with my house as guarantee to most of my suppliers and it's me that does all the extra book work at night etc etc etc.

 

This does not mean that I should shut my business down. It means I control my costs and run a tight ship. My staff are all happy and jolly and I bonus them when I can if targets are exceeded.

 

If you pay all your staff over £10 per hour I would guess that they are skilled and trained and qualified. My staff are ... In a kind way of putting it 'unqualified tryers' but they all work, don't claim and enjoy a beer with me after work on a Friday.

 

Daz

I support you 100% in this Daz, it's your business not a charity. Fill your boots and if it means you get a new Bentley and a Superyatch ever year then why not.

 

A good friend is MD of a business he has grown over the years and he has a fabulous country house with a shoot ( he is a late convert). he is the most humble chap you could meet but gets grief off his wider family as they see him as a free bank sometimes. The think he is having it easy. They don't see him wide awake at 4 am checking budgets etc on his laptop.

 

Let's not turn this country into one where all we see is the politics of envy. That worries me more than immigration. We seem to be developing a national sense of entitlement.

[Thunderbird]

there you go you can look it up yourself for more detail if you want they tell me google is good

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exclusive-ed-miliband-will-block-cheap-foreign-staff-loophole-if-labour-wins-in-2015-9039194.html

 

You misunderstand, I said legislation, not a news story.

 

All EU workers working in the UK are entitled to NMW, subject to some pretty narrow exceptions.

 

EDIT: Your article that you so successfully googled is about something called a Swedish Derogation contract, which can avoid the 12-week pay parity rule under the AWR but has nothing to do with the NMW.

 

Words fail me. PW employment law specialists are a hoot!

 

EDIT 2: ...and, the Swedish Derogation can apply to any worker, not just foreign ones.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Thunderbird

[kdubya]

 

You misunderstand, I said legislation, not a news story.

 

All EU workers working in the UK are entitled to NMW, subject to some pretty narrow exceptions.

I think you will find that if you read it it quotes the legislation

 

KW

[castletyne]

So it's a labour intensive job which you are obviously charging them out at a much higher rate than you pay. That's business. My staff answer the phone and deliver plumbing parts with a mark up usually under 10 % !!!

 

Also carpet cannot be fitted by the internet ! So your competition isn't in everyone's face all day every day. I quote someone £30. They find it for £28 online and buy it. That's why my costs must be as low as possible

 

 

I have massive compertition from the likes of SCS and other national stores who are on my doorstep

[Thunderbird]

I think you will find that if you read it it quotes the legislation

 

KW

 

See my edit above.

[keg]

Yes and no

 

Yes because the minimum wage doesn't reflect a true living wage and puts people off working when they could poppotentially get more on a con/benefits.

 

No because it will stop people wanting to learn trade skills/better themselves due to the little salary benefit. I know of people with trade skills, full 4 year aprentice etc who is on little more than minimum wage now.

 

The only way out is to possibly stop putting so much tax on things and squandering the tax we pay on carp. Thus making the cost oflliving cheaper. Oh and also stop property price inflation somehow (the cost of housing has increased massively in respect to wage increase). A house built 10,20 years ago is it really worth more than double, treble than what was paid then?

Yes, because it's worth what someone will pay not the land a material plus build costs. That worth is decided by the area, it's crime rate, schools......etc. You will never change that and if you try to then communism here we come.

 

Wages will eventually catch up or property will slow down. It has to or no one will get on at the bottom end and then no one else can move up.

 

The press are stirring it by saying that young people cannot get on the property ladder. We couldn't back in '93 as singles and we were both in good jobs, me as a sales rep, wife as an accountant with a large firm but we only just got on the ladder and could not afford any curtains upstairs apart from our bedroom or any carpets. We did manage to carpet most of downstairs. We did each room bit by bit, took nearly two years to carpet and floor the house.

 

We didn't expect to walk into a full on house whereas these days many do.

[kdubya]

 

You misunderstand, I said legislation, not a news story.

 

All EU workers working in the UK are entitled to NMW, subject to some pretty narrow exceptions.

 

EDIT: Your article that you so successfully googled is about something called a Swedish Derogation contract, which can avoid the 12-week pay parity rule under the AWR but has nothing to do with the NMW.

 

Words fail me. PW employment law specialists are a hoot!

 

EDIT 2: ...and, the Swedish Derogation can apply to any worker, not just foreign ones.

yep it can, but pray tell me why the high % of jobs in the UK on offer in other countries are via agencies and why they pay less than the min wage if your hearing a hoot I suggest you close the window it must be an owl although your way it may not be a wise owl

 

KW

[aris]

yep it can, but pray tell me why the high % of jobs in the UK on offer in other countries are via agencies and why they pay less than the min wage if your hearing a hoot I suggest you close the window it must be an owl although your way it may not be a wise owl

 

I can think of several reasons.

 

1) They don't speak english well enough to find work in the UK

2) Agencies have contracts with companies for a certain number of people with willing to do a specific job at a specific price for a specific time period. Contract work (zero hour contracts).

 

Still - they will get minimum wage - but they may not be on the same wage as a person doing the same job standing next to them as per the loophole you pointed to.

[Thunderbird]

yep it can, but pray tell me why the high % of jobs in the UK on offer in other countries are via agencies and why they pay less than the min wage if your hearing a hoot I suggest you close the window it must be an owl although your way it may not be a wise owl

 

KW

 

No, you asserted that agencies can pay lower then the NMW in the UK and they can't, you then posted a link to an irrelevant case that doesn't support your argument. The so-called Swedish Derogation exemption was negotiated at the time of the AWR and taken up by the UK Govt as a way for some firms and agencies avoiding pay parity under AWR.

 

AWR and NMW are two completely different things. I have no idea why (and indeed if) the adverts you suggest exist in fact do, all I can tell you is that the legislation is the legislation. Your original claim was wrong. Deal with it.

 

 

I can think of several reasons.

 

1) They don't speak english well enough to find work in the UK

2) Agencies have contracts with companies for a certain number of people with willing to do a specific job at a specific price for a specific time period. Contract work (zero hour contracts).

 

Still - they will get minimum wage - but they may not be on the same wage as a person doing the same job standing next to them as per the loophole you pointed to.

 

What he said.