Oli Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I understand the point about alcohol and tobacco, I think that these highs are much less severe in comparison. I mean what is more extreme, someone having a tablet and seeing the tooth fairy and believeing they can fly or having a smoke to calm some nerves or a drink to do the same? You have to remember that legal highs have no potency or addiction limits and the harmful effects are unknown for each. With alcohol or tobacco it's fairly well publicized to say the least. i agree with what you are saying but tbh given the choice i would much rather see the tooth fairy every so often then be hooked on a drug that takes away your confidence, makes you aggressive and anti-social when you cant top up on it, degrades your fitness and health over a long period of time and then eventually kills you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Not sure how you can say mdma hasnt been around long enough to understand its long term effects, its origins are back around 1910 ish. One of the most addictive and damaging drugs out there is tobacco, if they want to legislate on the basis of health concerns that would be a good place to start. I agree that tobacco/nicotine is very damaging, yet it has been around a few hundred years and we are still learning. Alcohol has been around 000`s of years (probably 0 000`s) and we know how bad that can be, MDMA has been here for a mere blink of and eye and a lot less popular or widespread than alcohol and tobacco. i agree with what you are saying but tbh given the choice i would much rather see the tooth fairy every so often then be hooked on a drug that takes away your confidence, makes you aggressive and anti-social when you cant top up on it, degrades your fitness and health over a long period of time and then eventually kills you We still have no idea what problems may be associated with these drugs, they may have the same and more as alcohol/tobacco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 We still have no idea what problems may be associated with these drugs, they may have the same and more as alcohol/tobacco Hmm, you could use the same argument for a lot of medical prescription drugs too or indeed anything you consume that isn't that old, health issues from "drug" usage have as much to do with deprivation and social circumstance as the drug itself imho, statistics don't always help. Personally i think its a question as to whether you believe a government should legislate the ins and outs of peoples lives or not. However i do find the tobacco industry cynical beyond belief, that being said they do pay a good dividend :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 It doesn`t stand up to scrutiny though, prescription drugs are tested, legal highs are also tested...on someone who wants to get high. Which of these has any kind of legislation? They even get things wrong with prescription drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 It doesn`t stand up to scrutiny though, prescription drugs are tested, legal highs are also tested...on someone who wants to get high. Which of these has any kind of legislation? They even get things wrong with prescription drugs. They certainly do get things wrong on prescription drugs. Quality assurance on legal highs might be a good idea at least then the kids will know what they are getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Do you really think they are made in a lab? The chemicals are cheap and the overheads are low, why are they £25-£40 for 2gm (random-ish but close figures)? PROFIT There is no assurance of what they are getting other than a high that is (possibly) legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Do you really think they are made in a lab? The chemicals are cheap and the overheads are low, why are they £25-£40 for 2gm (random-ish but close figures)? PROFIT There is no assurance of what they are getting other than a high that is (possibly) legal. Agree completely, perhaps it would be a good idea if there was assurance of them, making them illegal will just keep the quality low but tbh wont really effect consumption. Illegal drugs are consumed by the bucket load across the country by all walks of life every day of the week... even Nigella for goodness sakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I care when as a result of their drug habit they impinge on my family or community by stealing to fund their habit. theres more employed drug users than unemployed i think as they can afford it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 They need to legalise everything, clean it, tax it and everyone would be much better off. think your right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Oli - Sorry but either you or I am getting this wrong somewhere. Legal highs are not cut with anything (generalisation alert), quality (if you mean purity) is high. We do not know the effects on the human body are. Illegal drugs are (generalisation alert, but not much of one) cut with all sorts of things, purity is low. We are aware of many of the effects on the human body. We cannot be sure of the effects of legal highs, the name even suggests that they are OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Interesting article here> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/21/legal-highs-chemsrus_n_4308142.html Another good programme was "Americas stoned kids", might be available from the beeb still (5/10/13) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 We cannot be sure of the effects of legal highs, the name even suggests that they are OK. They are only legal because they are not on the banned substance list,when they do get placed on there the chemists tweak the chemical formula and they are again off the list,a constant cat and mouse game. Do not be fooled by the name,they are as dangerous as banned drugs and you have no idea of the chemical composition you are putting in your body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 do a line and let us know how you get on henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 do a line and let us know how you get on henry lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Do not be fooled by the name,they are as dangerous as banned drugs and you have no idea of the chemical composition you are putting in your body. i think banned drugs are safer in the old days you only had to know about uppers, downers, acid, coke, heroin and weed. all knowledge any college kid would know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 i think banned drugs are safer in the old days you only had to know about uppers, downers, acid, coke, heroin and weed. all knowledge any college kid would know Drugs are no laughing matter you know, if you look at what has happened in america recently they have taken an illegal drug and made it legal, the impact of which is only recently getting reported on http://dailycurrant.com/2014/01/02/marijuana-overdoses-kill-37-in-colorado-on-first-day-of-legalization/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Drugs are no laughing matter you know, if you look at what has happened in america recently they have taken an illegal drug and made it legal, the impact of which is only recently getting reported on http://dailycurrant.com/2014/01/02/marijuana-overdoses-kill-37-in-colorado-on-first-day-of-legalization/ no offence bud but your killing me thats a spoof people dont overdose on weed im amazed anyone would believe that story must have been killer weed it just goes to show if you print a drugs kill story everyone laps it up even if its complete ******** never mind the facts lets have a shocker http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/marijuana-overdoses-kill-37-in-colorado-scores-duped-by-satirical-website-9039019.html Edited January 17, 2014 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 your killing me thats a spoof people dont overdose on weed im amazed anyone would believe that story must have been killer weed :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) part of me thinks your post was a wind up oli i should have kept quiet and watched the safety valves blowing on the hang em hi crew . mmm is it to late maybe i should delete my exposure of the spoof Edited January 17, 2014 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoSmokingBarrels Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) It makes me giggle that people got to take drugs to "chill" them out, or take them to have a good time or whatever, learn to deal with lifes challenges mentally,naturally, all by yourself, call it character building if you like, people choose the easy quick fix, short term option to make everything better (supposedly). All drug users to me are low lives! And the fact people on here are going along with the idea of legalizing all these drugs, shows what type of people you are Certainly shouldn't be any sort of certificate holders! Edited January 17, 2014 by TwoSmokingBarrels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I care when as a result of their drug habit they impinge on my family or community by stealing to fund their habit. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) It makes me giggle that people got to take drugs to "chill" them out, or take them to have a good time or whatever, learn to deal with lifes challenges mentally,naturally, all by yourself, call it character building if you like, people choose the easy quick fix, short term option to make everything better (supposedly). All drug users to me are low lives! And the fact people on here are going along with the idea of legalizing all these drugs, shows what type of people you are Certainly shouldn't be any sort of certificate holders! all due respect and all that bud but it always makes me laugh, why do people think that people smoking a joint are trying to fix some deep rooted psychological problem and not just enjoying themselves , people seeing that the war on drugs is lost and legalization and taxing is a good thing as it would raise a lot of revenue to fix problems does not make them drug users just a bit more open minded to change and they probably never been near drugs in their lives as you dont need to be on drugs to see the possibilities and it has nothing to do with certs, alot of people would also say drinkers shouldn't be allowed certs, i shudder at the thought of a **** head with a gun Edited January 17, 2014 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexl Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) This is where it all falls down, the drugs are, if you believe the blurb (and it seems to be true to a certain extent), 98+% pure. This is way above street/illegal drugs (non prescription), yet there have been problems after a "legal high" has been made illegal there is lots of product left over, such as when Mkat was made illegal, so the chemists get on with there work and make some alterations to the chemical make up and once the take up of this new drug is on the rise, they cut it with the old stuff and if you get caught with it then you are carrying an illegal substance. No point saying that you thought that the plant food/pond cleaner/research chemical that you snorted or bombed was XYZ it was labelled as not for human consumption, off to jail, do not pass go... Sorry im not sure if im mistaking your point? but as you say the legal ones are the purest, my point was that surely legalising most (excluding heroin/highly addictive) drugs would eliminate this problem. Suppliers would need to be regulated by a relevant authority and quality checks by the same autority. The criminals selling drugs who cut/mix drugs to increase profits would be eliminated from the process. I know this isnt a simple matter and you will never entirely eliminate the underclass who sell illegals, but i would imagine the vast majority of people looking to take drugs would pay a premium and use the reputable outlets. It makes me giggle that people got to take drugs to "chill" them out, or take them to have a good time or whatever, learn to deal with lifes challenges mentally,naturally, all by yourself, call it character building if you like, people choose the easy quick fix, short term option to make everything better (supposedly). All drug users to me are low lives! And the fact people on here are going along with the idea of legalizing all these drugs, shows what type of people you are Certainly shouldn't be any sort of certificate holders! The fact that someone thinks it should be legalised, is not an indication that they take drugs themselves, so why should this stop them holding a certificate? Edited January 17, 2014 by alexl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) The fact that someone thinks it should be legalised, is not an indication that they take drugs themselves, so why should this stop them holding a certificate? 1 + 1 makes 3 mate Edited January 17, 2014 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 As soon as there is a tax on something there will be someone able to undercut the price as they will not have tax to pay and then there is the possibility of the product being cut with other substances and we have a two tier drug system, those who can buy from government sources and those who can't. Just like the fake tobacco and alcohol going around at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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