Do you really want this lot

[Gimlet]

someone who believes ukip are going to get loads of support and make serious changes, do you have a different definition ?

 

That's pretty much the average supporter of any party otherwise why support them at all. If you don't believe they can make a difference and your vote is worthwhile you may as well enter the polling booth with a blindfold and a pin.

It may be a triumph of hope over expectation but I'll settle for hope over defeated resignation every time.

[overandunder2012]

 

That's pretty much the average supporter of any party otherwise why support them at all. If you don't believe they can make a difference and your vote is worthwhile you may as well enter the polling booth with a blindfold and a pin.

It may be a triumph of hope over expectation but I'll settle for hope over defeated resignation every time.

i agree a average ukip supporter is no different than any other party supporter i never said they were not

[FalconFN]

 

That's pretty much the average supporter of any party otherwise why support them at all. If you don't believe they can make a difference and your vote is worthwhile you may as well enter the polling booth with a blindfold and a pin.

It may be a triumph of hope over expectation but I'll settle for hope over defeated resignation every time.

Absolutely. At last a post that I can totally agree with, if from a slightly different perspective.

 

This thread is getting a bit too weird now, but on a positive note at least politics in the UK and Europe is animating people and getting them talking. The more people that take an interest, especially in Europe and the EU, the better in my book.

 

Happy voting.

[poontang]

thats what he was hoping i would say

 

No, not at all.

 

I genuinely wanted to know what you thought was the make up of the average UKIP supporter.

 

Henry D has simply put the mainstream media spin on the question, hence I was asking for your impressions.

[welsh1]

Woodcock,Do you not think that maybe the eu was part of Ireland's original problem,jumping into the euro When it seemed that originally the public voted against it all,and then trying to grow at a huge speed which was unsustainable. And while the eu has bailed them out it comes at a huge cost,deal with the devil and he will own your soul.Ireland along with other countries are being propped up by the eu as they don't want the project to fail,but it is built like a pack of cards and economically on dodgy ground,it will eventually implode,and it will not be pleasant.

 

Far better to be a country in charge of your own destiny and not one being told what it's future will be.

[keg]

+1 take Germany out of the EU along with the UK and none of the others can support the rest. France is technically bankrupt and is not making the necessary changes it needs to correct itself.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9839529/Most-French-people-agree-their-country-is-totally-bankrupt.html

[Psyxologos]

The point is we do not need the eu,we do not need to engage with them, we do not need them to make laws for us,we do not need to be told how to run our country.

We live in a country with the oldest democracy in the world,why would we want to throw it all away to be governed by a committee of people who are accountable to no one,who listen to no one and inflict their ideology on this country.

They are not needed and not wanted.

Just by making this statement you lost all credibility...

[welsh1]

Just by making this statement you lost all credibility...

Would you care to expand on your statement?

Would you like to disprove my statement?

[Psyxologos]

if they are anything like Nigel and the rest of the kippers, misogynistic, xenophobic, homophobic?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2630393/Nigel-Farage-challenged-LBC-expenses-racism-Ukip-candidate-wants-shoot-poofs-car-crash-interview-halted-spin-doctor-live-air.html

 

Very revealing...

[Psyxologos]

Would you care to expand on your statement?

Would you like to disprove my statement?

 

Britain the oldest democracy? Are you serious? Britain was not a democracy even 150 years ago.

[welsh1]

Britain the oldest democracy? Are you serious? Britain was not a democracy even 150 years ago.

The parliment of Great Britain was formed in 1707 but the English parliment goes back further than that,it is recognised as the longest running democraticically elected chamber.

 

There were democracies before but they crumbled when taken over by dictators.

 

 

If you want to really push the boundaries ,the Magna Carta in 1215 made the king accept that we all had rights and was the start of our democracy.

Edited May 17, 2014 by welsh1

[keg]

 

Britain the oldest democracy? Are you serious? Britain was not a democracy even 150 years ago.

Why do you say that? according to my history books it was. Rob has his dates bang on.

[Psyxologos]

If you want to really push the boundaries ,the Magna Carta in 1215 made the king accept that we all had rights and was the start of our democracy.

 

Still a couple of millennia later than other countries though...

 

Anyway. We regress. I have to admit I still have not received a coherent answer as to how will the average British subject will benefit from a ukip mep majority. If ukip's mandate is not to engage in any way with the EU, how is that different to someone voting to leave these seats in the European parliament vacant?

[Psyxologos]

Why do you say that? according to my history books it was. Rob has his dates bang on.

 

You have to excuse me. I find it hard to see how a nation that has a head of state who rules by right of blood can call themselves a democracy. I do understand that nowadays the monarchy has a role that is more ceremonial rather than organic, but still there are powers the monarch has that I find to be incompatible with a democracy. Again, this is only my opinion, and of course i might be wrong.

[welsh1]

Still a couple of millennia later than other countries though...

 

Anyway. We regress. I have to admit I still have not received a coherent answer as to how will the average British subject will benefit from a ukip mep majority. If ukip's mandate is not to engage in any way with the EU, how is that different to someone voting to leave these seats in the European parliament vacant?

 

While other countries may have started democracies before us,their democracies failed as they had revolutions or civil ars resulting in them becoming dictatorships, none lasted as long as our democracy has,and that is why our system is copied all over the world,we are the oldest, but if the eu get their way we will not be for much longer.

 

I think Gimlet answered your question on UKIP and their stance as MEP's some time ago,it must be at lest a few pages back by now,but to summarise ,they do vote,they vote to block things not in the interest of the uk,they form coelitions with other euro sceptic parties,and they also point out the bad/mad/stupid/wasted/incompetent things the eu do.

[welsh1]

The tricky one about subject or citizen,it is hard to explain but you are technically a citizen,it states it on your passport,but I have used this from the BBC to explain it in the past,it is well written and understandable.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4191613.stm

Edited May 17, 2014 by welsh1

[keg]

 

You have to excuse me. I find it hard to see how a nation that has a head of state who rules by right of blood can call themselves a democracy. I do understand that nowadays the monarchy has a role that is more ceremonial rather than organic, but still there are powers the monarch has that I find to be incompatible with a democracy. Again, this is only my opinion, and of course i might be wrong.

I would agree with your point if that head of state had more power. As you correctly point out, their role is more ceremonial than organic.

 

 

The most efficient form of government is, i believe, benevolent dictatorship. Sadly few stay benevolent for long......

 

Nice to see that i'm not the only one daft enough to be up at this time.

[Psyxologos]

Nice to see that i'm not the only one daft enough to be up at this time.

 

Maybe we should start a support group or something. Insomniacs anonymous...

[Gimlet]

 

You have to excuse me. I find it hard to see how a nation that has a head of state who rules by right of blood can call themselves a democracy. I do understand that nowadays the monarchy has a role that is more ceremonial rather than organic, but still there are powers the monarch has that I find to be incompatible with a democracy. Again, this is only my opinion, and of course i might be wrong.

 

God alive, not that old chestnut again, surely. The monarch does not rule, she reigns. Those who don't understand the distinction should look it up and start a new thread on the subject if they feel a pressing need to discuss it further.

[overandunder2012]

 

No, not at all.

 

I genuinely wanted to know what you thought was the make up of the average UKIP supporter.

 

Henry D has simply put the mainstream media spin on the question, hence I was asking for your impressions.

no problem mate, ukip supporters are like any other supporters come from all walks of life some sane some not and optimistic that things may change.

Edited May 17, 2014 by overandunder2012

[henry d]

Henry D has simply put the mainstream media spin on the question, hence I was asking for your impressions.

 

Not at all, he is "uncomfortable" in situations that are normal in everyday life, doesn`t want to have Romanian`s living next door and has a party member who thinks its ok to call gay men poofters and that by aversion therapy he could cure them, and others who think women are lesser beings.

 

Yeah, the type of party that really balanced individuals would want to join.

[woodcock11]

Woodcock,Do you not think that maybe the eu was part of Ireland's original problem,jumping into the euro When it seemed that originally the public voted against it all,and then trying to grow at a huge speed which was unsustainable. And while the eu has bailed them out it comes at a huge cost,deal with the devil and he will own your soul.Ireland along with other countries are being propped up by the eu as they don't want the project to fail,but it is built like a pack of cards and economically on dodgy ground,it will eventually implode,and it will not be pleasant.

 

Far better to be a country in charge of your own destiny and not one being told what it's future will be.

No - I don't think so - the EU did its job and helped Ireland to get to first world status and a country that at last could be proud of itself and be treated by others including the UK as an equal.

 

I am old enough to remember what Ireland was like in the 1950s & 1960s - cutesy, fabulous for tourists but basically uneconomic, old fashioned and with a government that was controlled by the church.

 

Yes the wheels came off in 2008 - as they did in the UK - but this was down to the Banks [please don't get me started on them] and not the EU.

 

Generally, Ireland is coming out of recession and the infrastructure is now largely in place to allow for a quick recovery - 750 km of motorways built in 10 years, fibre optic and super fast broadband and, above all, a young, educated, skilled and highly motivated workforce who conveniently happen to speak English and are the nearest landfall to the US - we can for example fly to Newark from Belfast in 5h30!

 

All of this has helped relations between the UK and Ireland to develop to the cooperative & cordial relations that exist between our two countries today and why we no longer have soldiers on the streets in NI.

 

I think that Scotland benefited well out of the EU - how was it in Wales?

[keg]

No - I don't think so - the EU did its job and helped Ireland to get to first world status and a country that at last could be proud of itself and be treated by others including the UK as an equal.

 

I am old enough to remember what Ireland was like in the 1950s & 1960s - cutesy, fabulous for tourists but basically uneconomic, old fashioned and with a government that was controlled by the church.

 

Yes the wheels came off in 2008 - as they did in the UK - but this was down to the Banks [please don't get me started on them] and not the EU.

 

Generally, Ireland is coming out of recession and the infrastructure is now largely in place to allow for a quick recovery - 750 km of motorways built in 10 years, fibre optic and super fast broadband and, above all, a young, educated, skilled and highly motivated workforce who conveniently happen to speak English and are the nearest landfall to the US - we can for example fly to Newark from Belfast in 5h30!

 

All of this has helped relations between the UK and Ireland to develop to the cooperative & cordial relations that exist between our two countries today and why we no longer have soldiers on the streets in NI.

 

I think that Scotland benefited well out of the EU - how was it in Wales?

Was it all down to the banks?, common sense decrees that you cannot suddenly go from what was an agrarian economy to the "Celtic Tiger" in just over a decade without some pain. Land prices just kept going up and up. It was obvious the bubble was going to burst at some point, even with all the inward investment.

[four-wheel-drive]

I would agree with your point if that head of state had more power. As you correctly point out, their role is more ceremonial than organic.

 

 

The most efficient form of government is, i believe, benevolent dictatorship. Sadly few stay benevolent for long......

 

Nice to see that i'm not the only one daft enough to be up at this time.

I tend to agree with you they say that we live in a democracy but if when we have elections more than half of the people do not vote add to that how many people vote for the party that there family have always voted for we are labour we are Conservative yet they no nothing of the people that they are voting for.

[woodcock11]

Was it all down to the banks?, common sense decrees that you cannot suddenly go from what was an agrarian economy to the "Celtic Tiger" in just over a decade without some pain. Land prices just kept going up and up. It was obvious the bubble was going to burst at some point, even with all the inward investment.

The Celtic Tiger was doing quite nicely - however, land prices as you say just kept on going up and up and we could foresee that it was going to end in tears when the Banks just went on lending, lending, lending and the likes of Anglo Irish & RBS went spectacularly bust and had to be bailed out.....

 

Anyway, it was not the fault - I believe - of the EU; I will stick with the banks!