A mandate for BASC

[Scully]

I think that's very true, but - is there a case for mandatory membership - at least under the guise of needing insurance? At least a vastly increased total membership might scare the politicians into thinking.

Just to play devil's advocate here - I think Countryside Marches proved that it doesn't really matter how prepared to fight people are, if a government is determined to do something undemocratic, they'll do it - just look at Kenny MacAskill.

I once prescribed to the idea of compulsory membership, but then again I once believed in the effectiveness of our organisations. Like motor insurance; it would merely rise on a regular basis for no discernible benefit to the driver.

[RossEM]

Scully, I understand your cynicism - it is hard to trust BASC in certain respects, given their recent form. I totally agree that corporate hospitality and pensions are a distasteful and immoral use of our member subs, too.

 

On the subject of petitioning and lobbying, that is what we pay BASC to do - if it is BASC policy to push for the reintroduction of .22RF pistols, then by default it should be publicised and known that all members of the organisation are in favour. I am not saying that BASC should be doing the work while we rest on our laurels - but they are our representatives.

You are quite right that BASC need to be more forthright in their defence of shooting - I suggested in an earlier post that they should be pushing for a shooting charter. Our rights should be recognised, and our needs should be taken seriously by those in power. It is unbelievably frustrating that BASC have a 'don't rock the boat' attitude on this. We are not a marginal industry, and deserve proper legal recognition - I believe an amalgamated shooting association is the only way to achieve that.

 

 

I had a brief look into the totals of gun licences held in the UK and found this on the Evening Standard website:

As of 2012, the UK figures stood at 141,820 firearm, 562,696 shotgun. This is of course without airgun owners - and if we are talking in terms of potential membership of a shooting organisation, then trade members & supporters can be added to the total. With all of those people as members, we would be in a position to rival the RSPB. But, you are right, we are divided and apathetic at the moment.

[CharlieT]

Scully, I understand your cynicism - it is hard to trust BASC in certain respects, given their recent form. I totally agree that corporate hospitality and pensions are a distasteful and immoral use of our member subs, too.

 

 

Ross

 

I didn't realise BASC used our subs for corporate hospitality, I presume you mean private boxes at the likes of the Wimbledon Tennis Championships and Royal Ascot for their staff and guests, can you provide any links to evidence of this as I would like to take the matter up.

 

As for pensions, I think it's not unreasonable that even BASC employees should have a pension. Does your employer not provide you with one ?

[Scully]

Can't argue with much of that RossEM, but just for the sake of clarification lest anyone think BASC took the initiative, it was a tiny group called FirearmsUK who instigated the e petition regarding .22rf handguns, not BASC.

Incidently, one of the so called shooting representative organisations with which it has been suggested we merge, although providing a link on its website, refuses to give the e petition its support. Solidarity?

[David BASC]

Yes member of staff can join a pension scheme offered by BASC. Further, you may not realise that this is becoming law in the UK for employers to have pension schemes for their employees.

 

No BASC does not do 'corporate hospitality' nor have we ever to the best of my knowledge.

 

Yes we fully supported Firearms UK on their 22 petition and pushed it very hard, shame some did not I agree.

 

As for a shooting charter, perhaps you were not aware that BASC set up and runs the All Party Group on shooting & conservation within parliament, and its BASC that that for the last several general elections have worked with the main political parties to put commitments to safeguard shooting in their manifesto's

 

David

[motty]

Yes member of staff can join a pension scheme offered by BASC. Further, you may not realise that this is becoming law in the UK for employers to have pension schemes for their employees.

 

No BASC does not do 'corporate hospitality' nor have we ever to the best of my knowledge.

 

Yes we fully supported Firearms UK on their 22 petition and pushed it very hard, shame some did not I agree.

 

As for a shooting charter, perhaps you were not aware that BASC set up and runs the All Party Group on shooting & conservation within parliament, and its BASC that that for the last several general elections have worked with the main political parties to put commitments to safeguard shooting in their manifesto's

 

David

I would think so, considering it is also helping to safeguard your jobs. Shame the poor old greylag goose didn't matter as much....

[David BASC]

With due respect motty this has been thoroughly discussed on the relevant forum about greylags and the general licence.

 

I will repeat here though that its Natural England's long established policy to move species that are covered under the individual licence to the general licence where they are convinced that the moving the species to the general licence will not impact on the favourable conservation status of any habitat type or species within its natural range and also where an activity would routinely be approved NE anyway.

 

David

[RossEM]

Hi CharlieT & David - It would be foolish to assume that any corporate entity would not provide hospitality at functions they host, for example - that doesn't mean I agree with it being done, no matter on the scale. I'm well aware there is an obligation for employers to provide a pension scheme - in the light of LAG, for example, I find it rather distasteful. If the battle is won, go ahead. It's a reward for failure in John Swift's case, isn't it?

 

The All Party Group does some great work, which I'm sure most of us take for granted. However, it is not going to stop airguns being reclassified in Scotland, for instance, is it?

 

Commitments in manifestos, as we all know, are b*******. BASC should be fighting hard for legal protection for shooting - not just to make sure our sport cannot be further eroded, but that so we are given a secure platform to build on. Our current defence is largely reactionary - why shouldn't we be pushing for what our sport needs and deserves?

 

Scully, I agree it's a real shame about the other organisation not supporting the petition. I have no interest whatsoever in target shooting, but I still signed it.

[wymberley]

 

No BASC does not do 'corporate hospitality' nor have we ever to the best of my knowledge.

 

Yes we fully supported Firearms UK on their 22 petition and pushed it very hard, shame some did not I agree.

 

 

 

David

The number of free drinks that I've served up in the VIP enclosure at the CLA GFs must run it close though. However, I see nothing wrong with a bit of innocent bribery under the name of hospitality

 

Just how hard did you push? What proportion of the c15,000 'names' are down to the efforts of BASC? Sounds more like a very gentle nudge without the wink to me. 'Pushing very hard' should have had it wrapped up by now.

[David BASC]

^{The vast majority of the drinks at the CLA are sponsored.}

 

^{re the petition - on our web in our mag and emailed to all our members who have an email address}

Edited May 28, 2014 by David BASC

[wymberley]

^{The vast majority of the drinks at the CLA are sponsored.}

 

^{re the petition - on our web in our mag and emailed to all our members who have an email address}

David,

 

The earlier remarks about staff pensions were patently out of order. As you've already said BASC do not do corporate entertainment. This just leaves the remark regarding hospitality to be cleared up. Having dished out the drinks I know, or, more accurately now, knew, who the sponsors were. Hopefully, your response will have now satisfied everyone that in this regard, BASC is not in the habit of pouring, quite literally, members' subscriptions down the toilet.

 

I have to say that your description of BASC's action on the pistol petition does not strike me as "pushed it very hard" If you were to say that those actions taken will be repeatedly made until such time as the time limit for the petition has expired, then that would so qualify. However, let's say I am wrong which leaves us with exactly as many have already said is the biggest single problem that we have. Apathy.

Edited May 28, 2014 by wymberley