Mikeshudson Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Hi folks, I think this is my first post on the forums here, but I've been a member in a while and often come here for advice. Have just moved this from Guns & Equipment as feel its more suited here... It is from reading a very old forum on here that I felt the need to ask a question now in relation to the laws on shotguns and detachable magazines. I recently acquired an Enfield No. 4 Mk1 sporterized, converted to a .410. It has all the appropriate proof marks on it for its conversion to a shotgun as well as a certificate of magazine restiriction and stamps from the proof house. However, the quandry I am in is that a metal plate has been welded into place in the breech to allow only one cartridge to be inserted at a time (and this welded feeder plate has been stamped) but the magazine is still detachable from underneath the plate. Obviously, there is no possible way of feeding the shotgun from its original (or any other) magazine; but does it still having a removable (even though useless) magazine, put it in the section one category. A note I feel i should mention is that the magazine restriction was completed by the proof house in 1992. Any responses will be very welcome to put my mind at ease; I am taking her up to Bisley tomorrow for a gunsmiths opinion on a slightly useless ejector so will clarify with them also, but for now, please do contribute! Many thanks in advance, Mike Hudson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 IMO the magazine is cosmetic and not a magazine but a bit of dressing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Perfectly OK. Since the floor plate is welded the mag is simply cosmetic. Edited June 17, 2014 by Imperfection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeshudson Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Thanks very much for the sppedy response. I presumed this was the case, as its has the appropriate stamping and certificates but was just a tad concerned. The other issues with the gun (which may arise due to it being previously owned by a collector and not a 'shooter') is that when I load a cartridge into the breech, it becomes stuck... I think this may be some grime in the breech causing it to get jammed in?? But any thoughts? Also, it doesn't eject... I am taking to Bisley tomorrow for a proper look but can anyone with experience of enfield bolts tell me if the bolt and ejector look knackered? Edited June 17, 2014 by Mikeshudson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Thanks very much for the sppedy response. I presumed this was the case, as its has the appropriate stamping and certificates but was just a tad concerned. The other issues with the gun (which may arise due to it being previously owned by a collector and not a 'shooter') is that when I load a cartridge into the breech, it becomes stuck... I think this may be some grime in the breech causing it to get jammed in?? But any thoughts? Also, it doesn't eject... I am taking to Bisley tomorrow for a proper look but can anyone with experience of enfield bolts tell me if the bolt and ejector look knackered? NO ejector on them photos...just an EXTRACTOR The ejector is on the left side of the receiver, on the inside edge. Held in place by a small screw. Want a photo? Talking of photos....I'd be interested in one of the receiver on your No.4 as mine has no plate in it that allows fitting of a cosmetic-only magazine, just a welded plate in trigger guard gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 The magazine is not functional so doesn't count it's like putting a tube extension on a pump or semi that's got a crimp to stop more than 2 rounds fitting. Now if you milled out the plate to allow it to feed it would change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeshudson Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Many thanks for further replies. Saddler, I would love a picture please. The extractor does not grip the cartridge 95% of the time I pull the bolt out, and when it does, the expended cartridge is not thrown out.......... Here are further pictures.... Any further info I could gte would be great as well... Been looking out for one of these since the licence came through but would love to know more about this gun in particular as I'm pretty sure it wasn't one of the ones converted in India for the brass .303 converted to .410 cartridges... Edited June 17, 2014 by Mikeshudson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Many thanks for further replies. Saddler, I would love a picture please. The extractor does not grip the cartridge 95% of the time I pull the bolt out, and when it does, the expended cartridge is not thrown out.......... Here are further pictures.... Any further info I could gte would be great as well... Been looking out for one of these since the licence came through but would love to know more about this gun in particular as I'm pretty sure it wasn't one of the ones converted in India for the brass .303 converted to .410 cartridges... THIS part... ...shows the outside of the ejector area; the screw that holds it in. The inside area of this, there should be a small spring clip. As to the extractor riding the rim of the case... What ammo are you using? I make my own 410 fodder, from once fired 303 cases. Fire formed to fit the chamber. Work a treat. IF you have access to an empty 303 case try it & see if it extracts. Otherwise, try a different make of 410 case. It may also be a weak extractor spring, or a spring that is full of 7 decades of gunk. Try stripping it to clean out the gunk...or if you cannot strip it use an ultrasonic bath cleaner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeshudson Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Thanks for the info - I'm certain it is a weak or completely knackered (or non-existant) extractor spring as the extractor itself is easily moved (wobbled...). Gunsmiths should determine this tomorrow. As far as the use of .303 brass cartridges, it says on the mag restriction cert that its .410 x 3" so I presume its be converted for modern carts? RE: the receiver, the plate thats in there stops the magazine from locking in place, but the magazine 'friction fits' all but a millimetre or two short of fully in the magazine housing as far as I can tell... The seller told me that he opted for the plate (rather than blocking the housing with a wooden plug) so the magazine could still be inserted for aesthetic purposes, but from what I can tell, it doesn't go in enough to lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 If the extractor is wobbly, then your spring is ********. Easy enough fixed. .303 brass, when fireformed, make good 410 cartridges & they have the correct rim profile for the extractor too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeshudson Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Many thanks for your help Saddler, will all aid me at the gunsmiths tomorrow. Any idea why the cartridges 'stick' in the chamber after the bolt is opened again without the action being fired off? Could it just be gunk around the chamber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Seconded just replace the extractor spring. I used to run 303 fired to 410 in a folder when I was younger work better than plastic IMHO. I would have used fultons for an Enfield if your at Bisley instead of William Evans but Gordon's a good but very busy smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeshudson Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Well I am up there tomorrow and in no hurry whatsoever. Have been told to pop in and I'll be taken through to Gordon for a chat... If he's too busy to help (completely understandable), I am sure they won't mind my enquiring at fultons afterwards! Many thanks for all your help... Just out of curiousity, what is the perception of these conversions? Are the ishapore conversions better than ones done in later life? Are the original or sportized ones nicer and or better to shoot? And with no choking, are they **** for using on the odd bit of vermin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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