Pinfire double rifle?

[Cumbrian]

Anyone ever heard of a pinfire double rifle? I can find a photo of a pinfire single barrel, revolving chamber rifle but that's not what I am after. I ask because I have seen a photo of the early 1900s of the Deer Keeper at Martindale Forest, Ullswater, near Penrith, standing beside a dead stag (a 10 pointer at least), holding a double barrel pinfire. But I think it is his shotgun - there are no sights for one thing and it is open country where they would be needed - and that the stag was probably shot by his employer or a client, who would have had the money for an expensive rifle that the Deer Keeper, who was part farmer as well, would have lacked. Anyway, interesting that he still had a pinfire shotgun 20 or 30 years after fairly cheap hammer guns or even Anson and Deeleys were pouring out of Birmingham into every provincial ironmonger's shop. One of these hammerguns, with only a single bite and generally very plain, was owned by my great grandfather, who was Vicar of Martindale in the 1890s, still in our possession, and it really does look quite inexpensive.

 

I should have added that that it was a red deer, so no question of a shotgun, even with a slug, even if they had such things then, being suitable for killing such a large animal.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Cumbrian

[Gunman]

Yes there were pin fire rifles a quick trawl of the internet will give a few examples . Tyr putting in Holts or Bonhams followed by pin fire rifle

They usually looked just like a shotgun and the sights were normally small fixed iron sights rather than the "express " sights we are familiar with .

I have seen a couple when I was involved with shipping guns to the States but I can not recall any specific detail. As pinfires were only made for a short span of time there are not many examples around and many big game hunters stuck to percussion guns the pin fires being rather light in construction and these were in use until well after the introduction of the centre fire cartridge .

[welshwarrior]

Why would a slug not be suitable for Red Deer? Not the best choice but would certainly kill one, I used to have a rifle Sbs 12 bore slug gun when I lived in Africa poor mans double but killed very well.

[Gunman]

Some African hunters in the Victorian time preferred a double 8 with solid ball to a rifle .

[Cumbrian]

Yes there were pin fire rifles a quick trawl of the internet will give a few examples . Tyr putting in Holts or Bonhams followed by pin fire rifle

They usually looked just like a shotgun and the sights were normally small fixed iron sights rather than the "express " sights we are familiar with .

I have seen a couple when I was involved with shipping guns to the States but I can not recall any specific detail. As pinfires were only made for a short span of time there are not many examples around and many big game hunters stuck to percussion guns the pin fires being rather light in construction and these were in use until well after the introduction of the centre fire cartridge .

That's very interesting - thank you. Will research further. However, I cannot see any kind of sights on his gun. The photo is a bit indistinct, though you can see that it is a pinfire, but you cannot see any kind of back sight or fore sight, though a shot gun bead might well have disappeared into the photograph, so to speak.

[Cumbrian]

Why would a slug not be suitable for Red Deer? Not the best choice but would certainly kill one, I used to have a rifle Sbs 12 bore slug gun when I lived in Africa poor mans double but killed very well.

I'm no expert on slug shooting but I would have thought it was fairly inaccurate at the sort of distances you would be shooting red deer up here. They are easily spooked, have plenty of space to run off into, and 'Forest' is a nominal term, more a designation of a game preserve than a description of the number of trees, which are sparse; it's mostly open fell, up to 2700 feet, and vast quantities of it.

[Cumbrian]

Some African hunters in the Victorian time preferred a double 8 with solid ball to a rifle .

That is very interesting, something I didn't know. However, my impression is that his gun is a 12 bore, but I will take a closer look within the limitations of the photograph. That would still leave the problem of the lack of sights, would it not? Perhaps in the African bush the distances were not so great for a hunter, what with scrub, trees, and a fairly flat terrain, which could mean, I imagine, that you came across your target - or vice versa - a bit unexpectedly and at fairly short range?

[Underdog]

Don't assume open hill can not facilitate stalking close in!

Sometimes they were also driven to the gun down gully's and so. Hounds were used too.

 

There was also paradox guns but I am not sure if they were about in the pin fire era, oval bores with a slight twist, not much twist is needed to assist a ball.

 

There was mechanically fitting slugs that fitted to specific rifled barrels too!

 

U.

[lister22]

yes deer were driven in close then shot with shotgun

[matone]

The OP certainly underestimates just what a 12g is capable of stopping !

[Cumbrian]

Taking all the replies so far into account - and I'm very grateful for all of them - I must clearly revise my initial view of the gun and how it might have been used, even if not a rifle. I would add one further piece of information that reinforces the general consensus: there are in existence two other guns used by the Deer Keepers here (the pinfire seems to have disappeared) that were formally retired about the time of the photo and now reside in a Carlisle museum, and they are flintlock muzzle loaders, one of them massive, looks like an 8 bore, and neither has any sights. Don't know if they have rifling but must try to get a look inside the bores sometime.

[Underdog]

Over on thetraditionalmuzzleloading.forum you can find a smoothbore section.

You will be impresed with some of the results from shooting ball!

[SEshooter]

I recently saw a pinfire double barrel rifle on pawn stars. The barrel and forend rotate to take the second shot.