nickofh Posted August 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I bought the Beretta A300 outlander semi, it's about £ 900, but is beautifully balanced and weighted and touch wood I've never had a jam! Cycles 2.5 3 and 3.5 cartridges.....good hunting ATB I think that is a lovely looking gun , probably at the top of my list if I went for a semi. Maybe a fusion evolve too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 As HDAV says, this would be where my money went. "AYA perhaps if you wanted something game oriented"."English guns well you could pick up a tidy english boxlock SxS for the money that will hold value if cared for". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 in your shoes with your brief I would buy the 425 browning for sale on gunwatch,alot of gun for the money,that will do what you want and last and hold value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Glad you asked really. My friend who has very kindly offered to take me on his permissions ( who is a former game keeper ) suggested an over under as a starting shotgun , for mainly the safety reasons I think. He was also the one who kind of pushed me to move from a .22 air rifle to a SGC I needed a gun that I know I could shoot steel through as he uses the pigeons shot to feed his hawks with. I could not afford an over under that was proofed for steel until my birthday gift ( 1st child on the way ). So looking round , pumps were the cheapest with a full warranty and I would think are slightly safer than a semi auto. I can't also deny that I do like the pump action too. I also think that in my limited experience a sem iauto isn't quite as good of a hand me down as an over under. So I think I will keep my eye out for a used premium brand. I fully get the car analogy and would much rather have a better used car than a poor new one. But it is because I have quite a few used things that I fancied a new one for this special gift. Thanks again for the advice , I think you have convinced me. Does my reasons for a pump make sense though?! You don't need a steel proofed shotgun to shoot steel shot. Pumps are not safer than a semi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Dont get a new gun to shoot pigeons with...its going to get wet...scratched...dropped ...muddy......you get the idea.....oiled stock is proberly better as it dosnt show scratches up as bad and it is not a slippy when wet if it has been varnished..........if you want to shoot clays or posh game days then get something "tasty" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Pump makes sense as they are cheapest, steel is a tricky one but HP steel proof only required for large shot size 4+ (HP steel loads) which you won't use on pigeon and through half choke max. Keep the pump for pigeons and rabbits etc but get something nice for clay/game shooting that will last a lifetime be interesting if the pump lasts long enough to had down (15 - 20 years minimum) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofh Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Pump makes sense as they are cheapest, steel is a tricky one but HP steel proof only required for large shot size 4+ (HP steel loads) which you won't use on pigeon and through half choke max. Keep the pump for pigeons and rabbits etc but get something nice for clay/game shooting that will last a lifetime be interesting if the pump lasts long enough to had down (15 - 20 years minimum) This was exactly what I was thinking. I am not worried about getting my hatsan escort dirty in the field , that is what I bought it for and I wanted to know for sure that I could shoot steel no worries. Perhaps I am wrong to think a pump is safer than a semi. I just imagined that since I have to manually load the next round I would be a little more in control than with a semi. Thanks so much everyone I cannot believe the level of support and advice you have all provided me with on my very first post. You could teach some of the guys on the motoring forums a thing or two! Plus no one has laid into any of my posts yet either! Let me ask you one other thing. The land owner where I have my first permission ( I work their ) has kind of asked if his 13 y/o grandson can have a shot with my shotgun , whilst I am there of course. I will of course explain safe handling , how to stand , use the lightest load I have and only load one cartridge in at first. Would it be legal for him and the land owner to do this ? Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Legality of of above is a grey area, only the "occupier" can lend a shotgun to a none cert holder unless there is an 11(6) exemption "clay ground) better to offer to take the land owner and grandson to a decent clay ground for a "have a go" session IMO they will have trained instructor and suitable loan gun. It is the school holidays and good excuse for an afternoon off Edited August 12, 2014 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofh Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Legality of of above is a grey area, only the "occupier" can lend a shotgun to a none cert holder unless there is an 11(6) exemption "clay ground) better to offer to take the land owner and grandson to a decent clay ground for a "have a go" session IMO they will have trained instructor and suitable loan gun. It is the school holidays and good excuse for an afternoon off Thank you so much for this advice, maybe you have stopped me getting into bother as I was thinking that I could borrow the land owner my shotgun in my presence. They are a good family and good friends so they will understand. For the moment then I think I will show him my .22 air rifle ( with scope and laser ) I think he will be happy enough with that for now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) It's very very unlikely anything would come of it unless there was an incident, the main problem is the term "occupier" has never really been defined there are moves to change this and there is some guidance. http://www.countryside-alliance.org/ca/article/faqs A non certificate holder may use a shotgun in the following circumstances: He may borrow a shotgun from the occupier of private land and use it on that land in the occupier’s presence. For a borrower under 18 years old, the occupier must be over 18 years old. Whilst at a shooting ground approved by the police for shooting at artificial targets only. Note that “occupier” is not defined by the Firearms Act 1968 but may be taken to include the owner, tenant or licence holder. There is no minimum age at which a person may borrow a shotgun and use it under the circumstances described above, but persons under 15 years old must be supervised by someone over the age of 21 years. Relevant Act(s): Sections 11(5), 11(6) and 22 -Firearms Act 1968. The Firearms (Amendment) Regulations 2010 http://basc.org.uk/cop/shotgun-safety-code-of-practice/ You may only lend a shotgun to someone without a certificate if you are with that person, on land of which you are legally the occupier OR if you are at a clay pigeon shoot where the chief constable has granted special permission to allow non-certificate holders to shoot. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CDoQFjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbasc.org.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fplugins%2Fdownload-monitor%2Fdownload.php%3Fid%3D39&ei=IE_qU4ubFcbNOOnjgOAF&usg=AFQjCNGj01US9HHW8ggr8CPpkNZvIGq9Rw&sig2=slH29TiTLV7K2DGjtMbznw Edited August 12, 2014 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckman91 Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 If I were you I would let the lad have a shot on the land mate. But it is a grey area so up to you as it's your gun and cert. although an afternoon at the clays would be fun for the lad tho. This was exactly what I was thinking. I am not worried about getting my hatsan escort dirty in the field , that is what I bought it for and I wanted to know for sure that I could shoot steel no worries. Perhaps I am wrong to think a pump is safer than a semi. I just imagined that since I have to manually load the next round I would be a little more in control than with a semi. Thanks so much everyone I cannot believe the level of support and advice you have all provided me with on my very first post. You could teach some of the guys on the motoring forums a thing or two! Plus no one has laid into any of my posts yet either! Let me ask you one other thing. The land owner where I have my first permission ( I work their ) has kind of asked if his 13 y/o grandson can have a shot with my shotgun , whilst I am there of course. I will of course explain safe handling , how to stand , use the lightest load I have and only load one cartridge in at first. Would it be legal for him and the land owner to do this ? Thanks again! This is the same as me I have a hatsan semi auto that gets knocked about, dirty and all sorts. And a nice old over and under for clays and game shooting when I do some. Good luck with finding a nice gun mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofh Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Duckman91 & HDAV Some real good advice, thank you and the rest of you! A used o/u it is I reckon and on the land subject , as I rent a unit out on the land maybe this kind of makes me an occupier with the permission in writing too hopefully it would be ok if I did introduce him. I like to share so probably wouldn't have the heart to say no! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) If you do get some 21g carts and clays Static is fine, let him have a few shots and if he enjoys it suggest the clay option. There are some good days run for youngsters by cpsa and basc. http://basc.org.uk/youngshots/ Should mention well worth joining a shooting organisation they offer more than insurance and you really do need insurance! Edited August 12, 2014 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckman91 Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 If you do get some 21g carts and clays Static is fine, let him have a few shots and if he enjoys it suggest the clay option. There are some good days run for youngsters by cpsa and basc. http://basc.org.uk/youngshots/ Should mention well worth joining a shooting organisation they offer more than insurance and you really do need insurance! +1 for insurance of some kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofh Posted August 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) +1 for insurance of some kind. Yes I fully agree , whilst I have only had my shotgun for a week ( and fired about 10 rounds at a static target ) I have been comparing covers and clubs such as BASC , SACS , Countryside alliance , ssa etc. So far it seems to me that SACS seems a reasonable cost and a good package. I do think I have some cover with my comprehensive home insurance. Included is £2million Public Liability. Having read my policy wording carefully in the last few days they cover the private pursuits of me and my family. Under the not covered section it reads " The use of firearms other than sporting guns used for sporting purposes " I know that this is not as good as BACS for example , but what do you think of it ? I fully intend to join a shooting club in the future with more cover as I consider myself to be a responsible person , I would also imagine being able to get more permissions with a more recognised cover , joining BACS or SACS etc also helps protect this sport doesn't it? Thanks again Nick Edited August 13, 2014 by nickofh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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