gunsmoke Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Taken from the CA press release. CA - Updating you on our work in Europe Countryside Alliance Executive Chairman Barney White-Spunner writes: I was in Brussels last week at a meeting of European fieldsports body, FACE, of which the Countryside Alliance is an active member……….. With the news that the EU-initiated study into the toxicity of lead has been put on hold, and with the recent reversal of a lead shot ban in Norway, views in Brussels about lead could slowly be changing for the better. It is increasingly clear that the evidence for a ban on lead shot is sparse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 As a member of the CA i got the email on Friday - good news indeed Davi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Taken from the CA press release. CA - Updating you on our work in Europe Countryside Alliance Executive Chairman Barney White-Spunner writes: I was in Brussels last week at a meeting of European fieldsports body, FACE, of which the Countryside Alliance is an active member……….. With the news that the EU-initiated study into the toxicity of lead has been put on hold, and with the recent reversal of a lead shot ban in Norway, views in Brussels about lead could slowly be changing for the better. It is increasingly clear that the evidence for a ban on lead shot is sparse. Thanks for posting that it doesnt seem to be on the CA website ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Its on their home page, second story (at the mo), final paragraph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossEM Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Is this the end of the LAG?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 As this is our second greatest threat but the biggest currently, I'd have thought this potentially good news would have been received with a little more interest than a reported earthquake measuring 1 on the Richter Scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Everyone suspects the protectionists have been exagerating the negative effects of lead shot on wildlife and humans, they are now getting caught out by amongst other things, a lack of independent scientific evidence to substantiate their claims, however true to their emotionally driven anthropomorphic protectionist agenda I believe they will continue with their real aim, which I suspect is, to damage the sport of live quarry shooting, in any way they can.....so don't bank on them giving up the platform they are currently using (the LAG) to maintain their assault on shooting any time soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Everyone suspects the protectionists have been exagerating the negative effects of lead shot on wildlife and humans, they are now getting caught out by amongst other things, a lack of independent scientific evidence to substantiate their claims, however true to their emotionally driven anthropomorphic protectionist agenda I believe they will continue with their real aim, which I suspect is, to damage the sport of live quarry shooting, in any way they can.....so don't bank on them giving up the platform they are currently using (the LAG) to maintain their assault on shooting any time soon! It would be good to know that some planning is being done to take shooting forward on a positive footing. Any balistic evidence out there which confirms the 'more humane' nature of lead shot or the true damage caused by steel ? The Norwegians seem to have some ! Surely FACE EU shares such information ? I am well aware it is not possible to expose the cards you have to play and even the manner in which you intend to play them but shooting has the best defensive position it could expect after the leaks from the LAG, the potential to quite reasonably discredit the LAG and any results it produces beforehand, the Norwegian change round, not to mention the lack of scientific evidence. I just hope someone somewhere recognises that if this hand is played badly I, for one, wont be in a forgiving frame of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 It would be good to know that some planning is being done to take shooting forward on a positive footing. Any balistic evidence out there which confirms the 'more humane' nature of lead shot or the true damage caused by steel ? The Norwegians seem to have some ! Surely FACE EU shares such information ? I am well aware it is not possible to expose the cards you have to play and even the manner in which you intend to play them but shooting has the best defensive position it could expect after the leaks from the LAG, the potential to quite reasonably discredit the LAG and any results it produces beforehand, the Norwegian change round, not to mention the lack of scientific evidence. I just hope someone somewhere recognises that if this hand is played badly I, for one, wont be in a forgiving frame of mind. Well put and agreed 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Agree with both panomma1 and jimmy above. The only problem u may have (althou possibly strictly not relevent as ballistis will be the same worldwide) that Basc and other shooting orgs have always said no uk evidence no change, so possibly a bit hypocriical to pick foreign studies when it suits ur needs/agenda. Althou absolutely nothing stoppping u copying the study in the UK and hopefully getting the same results. This battle will never really truely ever be won, they want shooting stopped and will pursue any chance they get, lead has just been the latest, but the simple fact that lead is toxic which there is no doubt will always give them a slight window/doubt in non shooters minds. As jimmy said it is really important basc and others start to be a bit more clever aboout things, the other side bases most of it's campigns on dirty tricks and half truths just to grab headlines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsmoke Posted March 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 I agree with jimmydean. I think the shooters of the UK owe Sir Barney White-Spunner and the CA a big THANK YOU. The CA case for lead is being used all over the world to help fight lead bans in shooting. If you read the minutes of the LAG it all seemed to change when Sir Barney started going to the meetings. As Winston Churchill said in 1942 “This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 The only problem u may have (althou possibly strictly not relevent as ballistis will be the same worldwide) that Basc and other shooting orgs have always said no uk evidence no change, so possibly a bit hypocriical to pick foreign studies when it suits ur needs/agenda. Althou absolutely nothing stoppping u copying the study in the UK and hopefully getting the same results. As you say, the ballistics are worldwide and there is no need to reinvent the wheel - there would be uproar in our small islands if we replicated the Nilo and Patuxant mortality programmes as we'd wipe out the majority of our duck population in one fell swoop. All we need to do is to use the information to suit our way of shooting. Our foreshore 'fowlers have pretty much got the steel sussed but should the worst happen and we have to look at a blanket NTS use, we just need to be very careful who we choose to do any necessary work for us - anything based on the premise that it is possible to consistently kill, say, a wood pigeon using the popular 1oz of No 7 shot at 40 yards through a TC choked barrel is inevitably heading for disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 I do not know what the points made at the recent FACE meeting will have on the LAG report, probably not too much is my guess as i believe the report is already in draft, but it may well have an impact on what DEFRA decides to do with the report, but that is very likely to be heavily influenced by which ever political party is in power at the time; so the results on the forthcoming General Election are very important to us in that regard. I would agree with Wymberley that the foreshore shooters have sussed out steel, and those shooters who have posted on this subject, based on their many years experience, have made it clear that there is a need for adjustment , not least of all on shot size. lets not forget that there are already some inland shooters using steel ,purely on price, perfectly effectively on pigeon. Never the less, the situation the CA and BASC and as far as I know all shooting organisations want and will keep campaigning for is for no further restrictions on lead and the news from FACE is very encouraging indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 There can be no report on behalf of the LAG as I understand there is no agreement from all members! Due to the lack of scientific evidence, at best there can only be one sided reports from the members of the LAG who are either for or against the continued use of lead shot in ammunition! Which is exactly where we started! And........ Another pointless waste of taxpayers money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Not sure nay tax payers money has been sent, my understanding is that all the participants cover their own costs..I suspect there will be a report with recommendations, soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Not sure nay tax payers money has been sent, my understanding is that all the participants cover their own costs..I suspect there will be a report with recommendations, soon. May I ask why you suspect it - do you have some inside info ? It would seem so since we are now how many years on from the start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 No inside info, just drawing my own conclusions from the reports on the LAG website, plus, as you say, the length of time the LAG has been going on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Very good to hear words straight from the horses mouth regarding the lead saga instead of spin,dont knows,not sures and deflections of late. Still very early but good on the CA for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Not sure nay tax payers money has been sent, my understanding is that all the participants cover their own costs..I suspect there will be a report with recommendations, soon. The participants are covering their own expenses to work on a report for the use of the government via DEFRA? I did not know that? but how public spirited!......however the membership of the participating organisations who have representatives on the LAG are the ones actually paying the expenses of these representatives through their affiliation subscriptions..........and as these members are taxpayers, I still maintain it is a waste of taxpayers money! Which raises another question........how much do you recon its costing BASC members in expenses for Messrs Swift, Harradine, the secretariat et al, to "support " and "protect" shooting interests in the LAG? Can someone please explain how a report claiming to come from the LAG can be produced and bear any credability whatsoever when a significant number of the group will neither sign nor be party to it?............it will surely not be a report from the LAG!!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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