hutchie the white hunter Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 This topic partly derailed the BASC Pigeon Conference thread and is worth a poll of its own. Members have expressed their reluctance to shoot breeding birds in the past and that is a matter for personal choice. However, it may alarm some people if there is a lobby (as Deako suggests and supports) for a fixed close season for pigeon shooting, which would cover almost half of the year. Here is a chance to air your views, but please keep it polite. CANT BELEAVE IT I PUSHED THE YES MENT NO WANTED TO VOTE NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country Boy Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 Rams Spot on correct mate- they can ONLY be shot as pests and for no other reason - this is clear (:blink:?) in the wording of the Open General Licence. David So what you are saying makes illegal : roost shooting, flightline shooting, stubble shooting, shooting over fresh drillings, and also any method of attempting to decoying them to where they were never going in the first place?!! How can this be it's hypocrosy gone mad - the woodpigeon is the number one arable farm pest species. SO PLEASE TELL ME - WHEN IS A PEST SPECIES NOT A PEST SPECIES? Answers on a postcard please to Defra Local Office OR BASC Any Town Any County The woodpigeon is a gregarious, extemely mobile and opportunistic bird, which was allocated full pest species status more than 30 years ago, we have a sedentary and ever increasing population here in the British Isles and some unmentionable says, it's a pest species but it's fully protected and we are considereing a close season - WHY? CB OH I'VE GOT THE MESSAGE DAVE, ...EVERY TIME I SHOOT A PIGEON, I TELL MYSELF I KNOW IT WAS ABOUT TO COMMIT A PEST ACT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 CB, Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify the point. As pigeion shooters we should all be aware of what the law says and should abide by the law- agreed? No - roost shooting,decoying etc are NOT illegal. The law says pigeons are pests and can only be shot due to the fact they are a pest. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country Boy Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 CB, Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify the point. As pigeion shooters we should all be aware of what the law says and should abide by the law- agreed? No - roost shooting,decoying etc are NOT illegal. The law says pigeons are pests and can only be shot due to the fact they are a pest. David Thank you David, so what is all the damned who-ha about, why are people trying to say that there are circumstances when pigeons cannot legally be shot, can you please clarify those? Cheers, CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country Boy Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 CB, Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify the point. As pigeion shooters we should all be aware of what the law says and should abide by the law- agreed? No - roost shooting,decoying etc are NOT illegal. The law says pigeons are pests and can only be shot due to the fact they are a pest. David Thank you David, so what is all the damned who-ha about, why are people trying to say that there are circumstances when pigeons cannot legally be shot, can you please clarify those? Cheers, CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointer Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 A cracking debate, but let's not lose sight of the question. I voted no and I'm sure Archie would turn in his grave at such a thought of a close season.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 The wording of the OGL was and is a bit confusing. It says that shooting a pigeon is one option as a form of control- and other methods should be considered- gas guns, other forms of scaring etc - but if in your oppinion the shooting is the best mehtod then that is fine. To stay within the law these pest species can only be shot as pests- agricultural or as a threat to human health for example. You cannot shoot them for sport You cannot shoot them for the pot You cannot shoot them to set a 'record' of the number of birds killed in a day/ week/ month/ year etc You cannot shoot them for a competition And so on..... One chap got in alot of hot water a year or so ago for shooting a magpie- his defence was that it was anoying him, it was in his (or his Grans - I cant remember) garden so he shot it. He was charged-- as shooting a magpie just because it gets on your wick is not legal. So if you get stopped (and it is v unlikely) make sure you say you are involved in pest control - and that in your oppinion in theses circumstances shooting is the best option. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMMER BURT Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 the pigeon club i am a member of have shot days to win a cup/shels even the committee see it as a compition it's heled over 3 weekends and the winner is the team that shoots the most birds the wining team gets the cup to shoot for the following year the runners up get 500 shels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Having spoken to our Director of Conservation - who is in charge to the team who advise on the OGL from BASC - this competition is most certainly outside of the spirit of the OGL and indeed the terms of the OGL. We think it is safe to say, that if you get caught doing this you would not have a leg to stand on. OK - your club members may get fined. If they were BASC members, the BASC disciplinary committee would possibly expell them from BASC subject of course to thier right of appeal. You may not think this is such a big deal - but perhapse, more importantly, if the disregard for the OGL becomes to the attention of the Government bodies that have to oversee it- we all stand to loose alot more! This is important- please do not break the terms of the OGL - we have to show and keep showing that shooting is safe and well run / self regulated. Do you want more rules and legislation? Do you want restrictions on pigeon shooting? Keep flying in the face of the law boys and this is what you will most certainly get! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco you missed another one Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Hi Gents, I've reading all your replies, some are quite amusing, some are a bit silly but that not the point. First of all try not to argue nor insult knowone for his opinion, at this point in time we should be teaming up and not shoot at each other. There are many questions that needs to be ask, I personally think that a Conference its perfect and I even be prepared to pay 50 notes if helps to defend my ( hobby ) if I can call it so. As a suggestion if I was in all your shoes its, think very carefully what you are writing on this forum and don't bite at everybone offered. People can use your answers against very easily. ----- Mark basc------ if you really are who you saying you are, don't you think you should start thinking about a plan of action to calm many people down and a research on the subject probally will help, you not really helping yourself here if you want a conference. I'm really looking forward for an open discussion on this matter but we need to discuss all the points on the subject and try to move forward with our (hobby). Thanks Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I shoot them to help the farmer reduce crop damage, if you could see how much damage they have done to one of his rape fields you wouldnt worry if they were breeding or not!!! i say no! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popgun Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 A lot of estates have commercial game shoots so there is no pigeon shooting in the winter. to control the pests you have to shoot in the summer, how are you going to protect the spring drilling in the closed season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I agree with the comments of working together- we are all on the same side. Many game shoots are opening up to pigeon shooters, and BASC will be asking all of our clubs and syndicates to do this - if they are not doing the pigeon shooting themselves. Commercial shots are another matter - but if there are tennant farmers on these estates than I am sure they can bring pressure to bear to allow pigeon shooting to protect thier crops. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco you missed another one Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Hi Gents, Apology for the name error I ment (David Basc). David can you make it very clear to everybody what its the problem in this moment in time with Pigeon shooting, please specify every subject in bullet points so that we can all start researching, and in case of a Conference we will be prepared on the issues. Please David don't start telling us about the OGL points, otherwise instead of coming to us for a Conference you should go to the Professional shooters and try to stop them, due to the fact that is arguable that what they are doing complies with OGL rules. Even on ebay there are organize shooting day now. My gunsmith told me 2 weeks ago that in a meeting with the pinewood Rep. they talked about the numbers of pigeons killed by the Professional (in a season) and the numbers where over 5000 for everyone, I probally kill 200 in a season if I'm lucky. So who should you start to eliminate from the chain?? Does BASC supports the many thousands of people that are going for Pest (sport)control???? Or Basc will not challenge the big guns?? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Mark, Please do not apologise about getting my name wrong! But thanks anyway. With due respect, it is evident that some recreational shooters are not aware of what the OGL says- and as such I will post clarification when requested or when I think it is needed. The BASC insurance policy does not cover bussiness activity - and the majority of our members are recreational shooters - 99% ish. Having said that we do have a trade membership ,but I could not tell you here and now how many of our trade members are pro pigeon shooters- but I will look next time I am in the office (Friday) Of course BASC supports the thousands of shooters helping farmers with pest control! I have had a PM or two about commercial shooting, and maybe the modorators will want to run this topic as a poll if they think it would be of benefit to the users of this forum - but that is up to you / them. I speak to farmers on a very regular basis from all over the UK, indeed today I was with a dozen of them in Gloucestershire giving a talk to them about farm diversification with the NFU. All of them let people shoot over thier land- all of them have problems with pigeon, and some of them have an isssue with recreational shooters who can only come at the weekend to shoot. They do not mind this - but need cover 7 days a week. This takes me back to an earlier point of mine on another thread- we need to share our shooting (in some cases) and not be over protective of our shoot at the expense of not giving the farmer the service he / she needs. I know this is not the case all the time and most of you very responsible and mindfull of your farmers needs- but it does happen. So please do not shoot me down in flames guys for bringing this up! The OGL says pigeons can only be shot as pests- it does not say how many can be shot at any time , nor do you have to catch the pigeons in the act as it were - they are a severe pest and that is that. Look at it from the farmers view- his beans, peas or whatever are being hammered by the pigeons- are you going to tell him that it is wrong for somone to keep shooting the birds that are wrecking his crops because a. They are paid to do so b. They will shoot alot of birds or c. They are paing to do it The farmers want / need to protect thier crops from pigeons, the OGL says you, me, him, etc can shoot the pigeons - as far as the total number of pigeons shot in a year- I bet you a pound to a penny that the total UK bag taken by 'pro' pigeon shooters is tiny compared to the collective bag shot by all the recreational (ie non pro) shooters like you and me - and still the population is on the increase! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco you missed another one Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Gents, Well you just gave the perfect answer, I most admit you shoul be in politics because you a very good on skipping or avoiding points, but no problem. You answer= and still the population is on the increase. Then what are the issues? What are the points of all these debates on the forum? We have already said that no doubt Pigeons are pest, even the Antys are admiting it. No decline what so ever in the population. Full respect for the OGL even if some of us have word it in a wrong way. So, I voted no for all the points above, I'll love to go to a Conference to debate how to improve my hobby but lets try to be straight with the issues. Please advise Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 You will have to forgive me, I do not intendt to skip anything- as members of this, and other forums will know there are five things that with me you can always be sure of: 1. I will be honest 2. I will be blunt 3. I will answer specific points with specific answers 4. I will always do my best to support shooting 5. My spelling will always be bl***dy poor! I did not mean to suggest that pigeon shooting in the UK has any problems when I suggested a conference- you do not have to have a conference only when there is a problem! I did ask originally if there was a conference what issues would members of this forum like to be discussed, and as you will see the subject of a closed season came up - hence this thread. So what are your thoughts on subjects for a conference? By the way there is a conference thread - so maybe you would like to add your reply to that - but it's up to you. Ta D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Mark, Please do not apologise about getting my name wrong! But thanks anyway. With due respect, it is evident that some recreational shooters are not aware of what the OGL says- and as such I will post clarification when requested or when I think it is needed. The BASC insurance policy does not cover bussiness activity - and the majority of our members are recreational shooters - 99% ish. Having said that we do have a trade membership ,but I could not tell you here and now how many of our trade members are pro pigeon shooters- but I will look next time I am in the office (Friday) Of course BASC supports the thousands of shooters helping farmers with pest control! I have had a PM or two about commercial shooting, and maybe the modorators will want to run this topic as a poll if they think it would be of benefit to the users of this forum - but that is up to you / them. I speak to farmers on a very regular basis from all over the UK, indeed today I was with a dozen of them in Gloucestershire giving a talk to them about farm diversification with the NFU. All of them let people shoot over thier land- all of them have problems with pigeon, and some of them have an isssue with recreational shooters who can only come at the weekend to shoot. They do not mind this - but need cover 7 days a week. This takes me back to an earlier point of mine on another thread- we need to share our shooting (in some cases) and not be over protective of our shoot at the expense of not giving the farmer the service he / she needs. I know this is not the case all the time and most of you very responsible and mindfull of your farmers needs- but it does happen. So please do not shoot me down in flames guys for bringing this up! The OGL says pigeons can only be shot as pests- it does not say how many can be shot at any time , nor do you have to catch the pigeons in the act as it were - they are a severe pest and that is that. Look at it from the farmers view- his beans, peas or whatever are being hammered by the pigeons- are you going to tell him that it is wrong for somone to keep shooting the birds that are wrecking his crops because a. They are paid to do so b. They will shoot alot of birds or c. They are paing to do it The farmers want / need to protect thier crops from pigeons, the OGL says you, me, him, etc can shoot the pigeons - as far as the total number of pigeons shot in a year- I bet you a pound to a penny that the total UK bag taken by 'pro' pigeon shooters is tiny compared to the collective bag shot by all the recreational (ie non pro) shooters like you and me - and still the population is on the increase! David Here, here. I must totally agree with that statement. I manage crop control on a large acreage, and to get on my list you have to prove you are available during the week before any weekend shooting is permitted. Once you have proved you are available on a more when needed basis than a recreation one there is as much shooting as you want. As I have said before pigeon shooting is out there if you are about during the week to provide a service. This business is not about getting as much land as you can, if you have exclusive rights to a nice piece -mange that well and share any surplus to ensure requirements are met. I have seen more shooters over the years lose land because they cannot keep up with all they have rather than letting someone else shoot and them 'stealing it' off you Regards starlight32' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco you missed another one Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Hi Gents David now that we swim in clear waters and you made it very clear for thikos like myself I'm more than happy to go to a Basc Conference and talk about the future of our Hobby. If it will be posible a West Midland location would be prefered. Close season ..... I voted no but we must be prepared to be open minded for any good points not to geopardize the future Pigeon shooting, I fully Respect all the people that voted yes they have some good points Ie Deako, Fisherman Mike and so on. I Much apreciated the good banter Let me know for new developments. Thanks Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.