LeadWasp Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 White Swan, it was.............Special..........needs Were they serving pints of OCD and rat pie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 White lion is meant to be top notch in the next village down ( harlaston) or travel to Hopwas near me and the Tame otter . Perfect food . Lead wasp i know you traveled a fair distance but try to keep it regular Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) It seems bonkers to state a tip-based OAL in a reloading manual for obvious reasons and those mentioned above - why do they do it? simple Mag length. most rifles are limited not by Leade or chamber dimensions (even more prevalent with VLD Secant ogive longer bullets) but they are limited by mag length The chamber leade is often much bigger than necessary on factory rifles to accommodate any and all factory ammo My 300wm is basically a single shot when I shoot 208gr AMax at the length I want to shoot them at the 180gr Corelokt is at max mag length which is a tip to head measurement, possible they may be more accurate when seated longer but I need a mag feeding round it doesnt matter how close you are to the lands the ONLY thing that matters is repeatable accuracy and that ONLY requires a repeatable method of OAL measurement. it doesn't matter where you measure it from...so long as it is repeatable and accurate For that purpose a tip measurement on a BT round is not that inaccurate on a soft point it can be I couldnt tell you where the lands are on half my rifles can tell you that some ONLy perform with a jump that could be measured in millimetre rather than thou! Edited June 2, 2015 by Bewsher500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted June 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) White lion is meant to be top notch in the next village down ( harlaston) or travel to Hopwas near me and the Tame otter . Perfect food . Lead wasp i know you traveled a fair distance but try to keep it regular Very kind of you to say so - I've enjoyed every trip, everybody has been great company. I was pretty faarked by the time I'd driven home tho'! Edited June 2, 2015 by LeadWasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted June 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) simple Mag length. most rifles are limited not by Leade or chamber dimensions (even more prevalent with VLD Secant ogive longer bullets) but they are limited by mag length The chamber leade is often much bigger than necessary on factory rifles to accommodate any and all factory ammo My 300wm is basically a single shot when I shoot 208gr AMax at the length I want to shoot them at the 180gr Corelokt is at max mag length which is a tip to head measurement, possible they may be more accurate when seated longer but I need a mag feeding round it doesnt matter how close you are to the lands the ONLY thing that matters is repeatable accuracy and that ONLY requires a repeatable method of OAL measurement. it doesn't matter where you measure it from...so long as it is repeatable and accurate For that purpose a tip measurement on a BT round is not that inaccurate on a soft point it can be I couldnt tell you where the lands are on half my rifles can tell you that some ONLy perform with a jump that could be measured in millimetre rather than thou! Hi Bewsher - but does seating depth affect pressure and safety? This is about my last concern/worry....I understand I need to try to get roughly a 'calibre' of seating depth but on some of the bullets this looks very close to the top of the powder. I had one load of IMR 4831 that was well up the shoulders. Edited June 2, 2015 by LeadWasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 seating depth will affect pressure if its a compressed load with the wrong powder, though a compressed load doesn't mean its guaranteed to be dangerous if that makes sense. A reloading manual will give you a bullet max length with each powder and weight combination, this isn't bonkers as most won't have O give measuring equipment and the tolerances between bullet length differences and sizes given won't be big enough to make the load dangerous, you will be loading up from 10% below max anyhow and you should know when you start to get near the limits. Its always a good idea to use a powder that fills the case the most for a safe load for two reasons, 1) you will know by the over spill that you have double measured, 2) to small a amount of powder can equally be as dangerous. For me, and not saying this is the same for all but I found that after a few years experience you get a feel for how things are going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Leadwasp you had a good group with the heaver bullets, I would work on that a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hi Bewsher - but does seating depth affect pressure and safety? This is about my last concern/worry....I understand I need to try to get roughly a 'calibre' of seating depth but on some of the bullets this looks very close to the top of the powder. I had one load of IMR 4831 that was well up the shoulders. As above yes but most powders recommended for a particular application will take that into account I run compressed loads on a number of loads I have without issue 52/60gr in .222 - N133 (powder is at the slower range for calibre/cartridge) 100gr in .270 - N160 (bullet is very light for application and requires higher charge weights) .208gr in 300WM - 78gr H1000 (bullet is huge, neck is short and OAL is relatively short) nothing to be concerned about in just being compressed. in fact I would rather have a compressed load of a slow powder that is compressed than a fast one I can overun and have REAL pressure concerns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) pushed one south! what rifle do you have? Edited June 4, 2015 by Bewsher500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 OK so I think I'm starting to get this. Most of the rounds I've made up so far have not had a lot of bearing surface in the neck - certainly not a calibre's worth....when I made the first batches in 75, 100 and 100 gr I was trying to meet the minimum COL stated in Lee's manual (as this was the only length clue given) yet was concerned that there wasn't a lot of bullet in the neck. However we did have some corking results with 110gr Hornady's as Dougy will attest! However the 100's wouldn't chamber so I'll need to seat them a little deeper and will do this in the ways that everyone has explained above. To stop me worrying about blowing my head off, if I find a happy medium between seating a boat tailed bullet a calibre or so into the neck as the rule of thumb suggests AND having enough jump etc to chamber the round then provided the load isn't compressed even if the tail is a bit into the shoulder of the case it won't be a dangerous thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I'll pull a 95 grain later to give u an idea of how far mine are inside the case, I'd think they are well past the shoulder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Thanks Paul - I think we've establish how long they can be, now I'm just worried about how short is too short and pressures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) I will see if I can borrow my mates oal guage he has for his 257 bob. When I see you next at Catton we will have a play and sort out your max oal with your most accurate bullets. PS I will show you how to sort out the oal with one of your shot case's. Edited June 4, 2015 by Dougy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted June 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Thanks Dougy - much appreciated. I know I'm fretting but I know that for anything that detonates confinement raises the shock stakes. I'm not too sure about deflagrants (cartridge powders) but I'm assuming the same - hence my concerns about how deep is too deep given that I only have tip COL's given in the Lee manual for e.g. 100 grain generic jacketed bullet. Edited June 5, 2015 by LeadWasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Well I was wrong the 95's seated at 20 thou off my lands do not go past the shoulder, very close to but not past, not that it matters.... Surely if your worry is that your compressing the powder to much then you'd be better to measure to the lands and back off a touch to create max case volume? ( or use less powder) Or am I not seeing your problem? Edited June 5, 2015 by Paul223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 In my 260 when seating I always hear a little crunch. Not concerned, no worries accurate and no pressure. I will bring a press to catton as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Using varget in the .223 I had to tap the case to get the powder to settle and not to spill and then yeah a nice crunch on seating the bullet, was good from the point of view that the case could not be overfilled but also that no powder in the neck meant something was wrong, sadly h380 only fills 4/5th's of the .243 case so I have to take a peak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 You will get higher pressure spike from a bullet sitting in the lands than you will from a moderately compressed load only your rifle and brass will be able to tell you how much is too much only your rifle will be able to tell you what it likes when it comes to OAL.....accuracy is the only indicator personally if the bearing surface is not clear of the neck inside on a .223 I would be concerned I was not going to get a decent concentricity of the bullet in the case roll the cases in an engineer's V block with a micrometer on the bullet ogive if you are remotely interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted June 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Thanks to all of you guys - much appreciated! Paul - It's not that I have a specific problem, I'm just trying to learn what is right and what is wrong so any good information helps the learning process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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