.17Mach2 thoughts

[Dekers]

Amazing how many people who don't own one and have never shot one will wade in to tell you its **** and you can't get ammo

 

Any RFD with a trade account with Hannams can order the ammo in for you....whether they will or not is up to a service level rather than any ammo availability issue

I bought a box of 1500 last time and it will see me through for a while

There is nothing to stop an RFD sticking a slab of a 1000 on an existing order at no extra cost for a customer willing to buy them.

Lets face it if you sell the gun you will have a supposedly RARE commodity to then sell on .......

 

I have a HM2 and an HMR....been through this on UKV a few days ago

my direct comparison to the same gun, is

-HM2 is more accurate with the one kind of ammo I have used (CCI) compared to the HMR using 5 kinds of ammo (CCI, Rem, Hornady 17gr and 20gr) seems pretty conclusive to me!

- its cheaper - much cheaper

- you can shoot rabbits at 40yds and not have to take a mop to collect them

- minimal exits, small entry

- it doesnt miraculously disappear up its own **** as it passes 100yds....it still kills big stuff well past that ( I shot a hare at 150yds and it fell in its shadow, I have shot foxes with it at close range and they REALLY don't like it!)

- it is not some loopy stone throw trajectory compared to the HMR.....its a shed load better than the .22HV it is often compared to. 22HV ammo in this country is often really bad, if you want to shoot at 100yds then good luck as the handful of types I tried would produce 3-4" groups at 100yds.

decent day I can produce ragged holes at 100yds, breezy day it is still better than the HMR I have on the same day!

 

 

If you want one get one

if you don't want one, don't get one - thats great, all the more "hard to come by ammo" for the rest of us.....

 

 

I bought 100 rounds of HMR ammo a long time ago.....still have some

I bought 1500 rounds of HM2 a similar time ago.....only have a couple of boxes left I think........

 

Hornady have discontinued so many other calibre bullets and have publicly notified you of it yet everyone seems to continue believing they are stopping making something they don't use yet remarkably neither they, nor CCI (who actually make the ******* stuff NOT Hornady!) have ever said such a thing......in fact there are several direct emails from them to the complete opposite...

 

Me thinks you do protest too much.

 

I don't see anybody here slagging it off, the public at large have just not taken to the round because it has a limited use, which has led to a dramatic drop in ammo suppliers (not that there was ever many), and hardly any manufacturers offer new guns chambered in HM2 now, logically this is only going to get worse, not better. CZ has stopped chambering HM2, so I'd say serious questions need to be asked by any intended purchaser, and when CCI are apparently the only ammo manufacturer now, those questions need to be asked more seriously. CCI doesn't even offer the calibre itself, only branded to Hornady, with precisely 2 variations of the ammo. Hornady offer 3 different HMR and CCI actually offer 6 different HMR.

 

The HM2 has a use, any calibre has a use, it just so happens that the use for HM2 is a very limited, as has been demonstrated by the public at large not buying it.

 

It sits between the .22lr and HMR and with the ammo variations available for both, but particularly .22lr, very few people find the need for one.

 

I have 2 x .22lr, HMR and WMR, and I shoot on a LOT of different land, controlling a lot of different quarry at a lot of different distances, and have never found the need for a HM2.

 

If you or anyone else does then fine, but be aware of the HM2 situation.

 

Edited June 8, 2015 by Dekers

[Bewsher500]

Really, I see as many nay-sayers as I do positives...that in itself is not an issue my point is that many of them have never owned or shot one

 

some comments off recent threads:

 

"I have never used a 17 hm2 but would not think it much quieter than a hmr, my thoughts would be that your hmr will do anything that a hm2 will do and better"

 

"There are three in my local dealer's shop but no available ammo so nobody is buying them...."

 

"it's a pointless cartridge, not my more then a .22lr and not much under a HMR, my mate has one, Along with limited supply and variation of ammo, it does not really offer much ballistic advantage over the .22, and if you want that little bit more why bother with the HM2 when You can just get HMR!"

 

3 negatives from 3 people that self confessed don't have one

 

So apart from the ammo that is "unavailable" except in most of the major dealers and any others willing to order in...

The accuracy....that is better than a .22HV....

The cost which is lower than an HMR it is being compared to..

its quieter than an HMR and WMR,

 

 

No I can't see any reason for one either....

 

and as for market pressure!

some manufacturers have stopped offering .222 in any new rifles in favour of .223

.222 ammo is not as common as .223

 

Don't see how that impacts the physics of what the round does or its ability to out perform any one of the cartridges above or below it given certain circumstances

.270 went out of fashion.....

7x57 went out of fashion

303 went out of fashion...

 

I don't choose things because they are popular.

world would be full of stainless laminate ,243's if everyone choose rifles based on popularity!

[Savhmr]

The noise difference is a complete non-issue since both are loud enough, moderated or not to scare off bunnies/crows/other vermin.

 

The whole point of HMR was that it essentially made redundant slower velocity 17 rounds which are more limited in range. Same bullet weight, slower velocity = lower kinetic energy and more pronounced trajectory.

 

Both will fire accurately and the issue over 17HMR ammo has been exaggerated to the point of hysteria imho. I've owned one for 5 years without a single serious issue or split case and it has been consistently accurate and deadly to 100 yards, 150 on occasion.

 

The only clincher that I can see for HM2 is cheaper ammo, but I'm with Dekers here as I can't see that there's enough commercial viability for HM2 ammo now that HMR has the larger market share.

 

For shooting anything larger than a bunny to 100 yds, I prefer my WMR.

 

Horses for courses, but there just doesn't seem to be any real advantage to HMR which is getting closer to becoming an obsolete round. Who knows, perhaps a high velocity .20 rimfire will replace both WMR and HMR in the future. 30 grain bullet at 2500 fps anyone?

Edited June 8, 2015 by Savhmr

[Bazooka Joe]

Who knows, perhaps a high velocity .20 rimfire will replace both WMR and HMR in the future. 30 grain bullet at 2500 fps anyone?

 

 

It's already here, doubt you'll get it in the UK though.

 

New ammo for the Rem 5mm by Centurion Ordinance has a 30g JHP hitting 2300fps.

[Dekers]

Really, I see as many nay-sayers as I do positives...that in itself is not an issue my point is that many of them have never owned or shot one

 

some comments off recent threads:

 

"I have never used a 17 hm2 but would not think it much quieter than a hmr, my thoughts would be that your hmr will do anything that a hm2 will do and better" which part of that is wrong?

 

"There are three in my local dealer's shop but no available ammo so nobody is buying them...." so, whats wrong with that statement?

 

"it's a pointless cartridge, you can argue all you like that is wrong, others would argue that is correct, and apparently the majority, as nobody is buying them and few are now chambered new not my more then a .22lr and not much under a HMR, my mate has one, Along with limited supply and variation of ammo, are you suggesting that is wrong it does not really offer much ballistic advantage over the .22, and if you want that little bit more why bother with the HM2 when You can just get HMR!"

 

3 negatives from 3 people that self confessed don't have one

 

So apart from the ammo that is "unavailable" except in most of the major dealers and any others willing to order in... so you agree there is limited availability and choice

The accuracy....that is better than a .22HV.... BUT not as good as HMR, and you don't need pinpoint accuracy to stop a rabbit with a 40g .22lr HP, either Sub or HV.

The cost which is lower than an HMR it is being compared to.. but much less choice than HMR and .22lr and more expensive than lots of .22lr

its quieter than an HMR and WMR, nobody is buying a HM2 because it is a bit quieter than HMR, and it's nowhere near as quiet as .22lr subs

Hence why .22lr owners aren't bothered with them and HMR is the next step for most.

 

Don't shoot the messenger, look at the facts and argue with Joe Public.

 

No I can't see any reason for one either....

 

and as for market pressure!

some manufacturers have stopped offering .222 in any new rifles in favour of .223

.222 ammo is not as common as .223

 

Don't see how that impacts the physics of what the round does or its ability to out perform any one of the cartridges above or below it given certain circumstances

.270 went out of fashion.....

7x57 went out of fashion

303 went out of fashion...

 

I don't choose things because they are popular.

world would be full of stainless laminate ,243's if everyone choose rifles based on popularity!

 

Me thinks you do protest too much, perhaps you better re-read what I said earlier. You are presenting a very one sided view of HM2, and like I said if it works for you and others then fine, but, there is another story the majority of the rifle buying public appear to see ......

 

Perhaps one comment above having a bit of a go, but those posts are stating facts, not idly slagging it off, HM2 owner or not..

Edited June 8, 2015 by Dekers

[tweedledee]

Calm down boys. I too listen to arguments against calibres from keyboard shooters. Fac air in 177 is another.I bought one to try for myself and love it.brilliant job for the squirrels. Honestly don't know why some folk comment without first hand knowledge. Maybe mach two will be phased out. If it is I'll buy thousands of rounds.at the money it cost I'll have my fun out of it before its worthless. Over and out!

[Savhmr]

 

It's already here, doubt you'll get it in the UK though.

 

New ammo for the Rem 5mm by Centurion Ordinance has a 30g JHP hitting 2300fps.

 

Shame, as I'd be in the queue!

[Bewsher500]

 

Me thinks you do protest too much, perhaps you better re-read what I said earlier. You are presenting a very one sided view of HM2, and like I said if it works for you and others then fine, but, there is another story the majority of the rifle buying public appear to see ......

 

Perhaps one comment above having a bit of a go, but those posts are stating facts, not idly slagging it off, HM2 owner or not..

 

what facts?

its not one sided at all

I own both HMR and HM2 in the same rifle, I was a huge fan of the HMR and couldn't wait to get my hands on one! I still use it

Fact is I realised it was not all it was sold as and grew to see a real use for a HV frangible rabbit and corvid round that didnt come with inflated costs or accuracy and reliability issues

 

but as a direct comparison from actual use of both calibres in the same rifle

 

• m2 is cheaper - fact
• ammo IS available - fact
• The ammo manufacturer have publicly stated they won't be discontinuing ammo production - fact
• Hm2 ammo has nothing like the volume of issues that HMR ammo does - fact
• its just as accurate - fact (arguably more accurate, mine is)
• it is not as powerful as HMR - fact...but so what? it is designed that way, I cant think of a single shot on a rabbit or corvid where I thought "oo, could have done with a bit more power there!". if it didn't do what it was meant to its because I stuck it in a less than perfect spot!

 

whether someone who does't own one thinks it is pointless or not is frankly irrelevant

whether companies who only tend to choose a limited calibre/cartridge list decide to make their new rifle in that chambering is also irrelevant

 

 

OP asked simple questions:

Does anyone have an experience of these? apparently less than half of the people willing to give advice.....

Whats ammo availability like? fine if you ask around and have a friendly/service minded RFD, 3mins on google is all it took apparently

Are they much quieter than a .17HMR? yes a little bit, from my direct comparison of the same rifle barrel and mod

Also what are the rifle choices? Sako, Marlin, CZ, Ruger and god knows what else I can't be fished to look for

I just chose to answer them from experience instead of making incorrect judgements on something I have no experience of or based on "the rifle buying public"....

But like I said you didn't comment on the same analogy for .222 vs. .223

try get a factory barrel in .222 instead of .223 and your options are immediately cut down.

try find a gunsmith with a .222 reamer......not many

does it make them destined for the obsolete calibre list?

of course not

frankly I don't care if the OP buys one or not, but I do get irritated reading statements which are clearly incorrect when someone genuinely asks for advice .....from those with actual experience of the item in question

Hardly a portest.....I am not selling one, have no vested interest in the industry, won't cry into my pillow if all the ammo dries up, have nothing to gain by passing on my thoughts on the HM2 vs the HMR.....

[Zetter]

Well query is in to the local RFD on ammo availability (I am pretty sure they can get some especially if Edgar Bros has some) and I have an offer to have a play with one. So assuming the ammo lines up i.e my RFD is willing to get some I will take up the kind offer of a try and put in a variation.

[Dekers]

 

what facts?

its not one sided at all

I own both HMR and HM2 in the same rifle, I was a huge fan of the HMR and couldn't wait to get my hands on one! I still use it

Fact is I realised it was not all it was sold as and grew to see a real use for a HV frangible rabbit and corvid round that didnt come with inflated costs or accuracy and reliability issues

 

but as a direct comparison from actual use of both calibres in the same rifle

 

• m2 is cheaper - fact who said it wasn't, but some of the .22lr is cheaper than HM2
• ammo IS available - fact who said it wasn't, the comments have been about limited suppliers and choice
• The ammo manufacturer have publicly stated they won't be discontinuing ammo production - fact.. I bet you believe what the Government tells you as well!
• Hm2 ammo has nothing like the volume of issues that HMR ammo does - fact Who said it did?
• its just as accurate - fact (arguably more accurate, mine is) You use the wrong ammo or your HMR is screwed, I'll take you on any day with your HM2 against My HMR and show you accuracy.
• it is not as powerful as HMR - fact...but so what? it is designed that way, I cant think of a single shot on a rabbit or corvid where I thought "oo, could have done with a bit more power there!". if it didn't do what it was meant to its because I stuck it in a less than perfect spot!, So your land lends its self to HM2 over HMR, I'm happy for you, you are one of the few.

 

whether someone who does't own one thinks it is pointless or not is frankly irrelevant

whether companies who only tend to choose a limited calibre/cartridge list decide to make their new rifle in that chambering is also irrelevant

 

 

OP asked simple questions:

Does anyone have an experience of these? apparently less than half of the people willing to give advice..... You don't need to grasp a red hot poker to know its not a great idea

Whats ammo availability like? fine if you ask around and have a friendly/service minded RFD, 3mins on google is all it took apparently, so it is harder to find and has a very limited choice

Are they much quieter than a .17HMR? yes a little bit, from my direct comparison of the same rifle barrel and mod the answer is NO, just a little bit, its still noisy

Also what are the rifle choices? Sako, Marlin, CZ, Ruger and god knows what else I can't be fished to look for Marlin, Ruger, and CZ no longer offer the HM2 in new rifles from what I can establish, Sako probably only still do because its called a Quad, not a Trio! Of course there are plenty of used ones, people can't move them fast enough.

I just chose to answer them from experience instead of making incorrect judgements on something I have no experience of or based on "the rifle buying public"....

But like I said you didn't comment on the same analogy for .222 vs. .223

try get a factory barrel in .222 instead of .223 and your options are immediately cut down.

try find a gunsmith with a .222 reamer......not many

does it make them destined for the obsolete calibre list?

of course not

frankly I don't care if the OP buys one or not, but I do get irritated reading statements which are clearly incorrect when someone genuinely asks for advice .....from those with actual experience of the item in question

Hardly a portest.....I am not selling one, have no vested interest in the industry, won't cry into my pillow if all the ammo dries up, have nothing to gain by passing on my thoughts on the HM2 vs the HMR.....

 

You need to open your mind, once again you decide not to address the points raised, the shooting majority has no place for a HM2, FACT. That doesn't mean it is useless, in the case of HM2 it simply means there is only a limited place for it in the field, so the vast majority either haven't got or can't justify that need. If you have .22lr and HMR you are going to need a pretty exceptional situation to justify owning a HM2 as well, with all the ammo choices available for .22lr and HMR.

 

And your analogy to the likes of .222/.223 is not even close to being the same, there are lots of manufacturers chambering .222 and making the ammo, but one important thing you forget is they are centrefire, so whatever happens the odds are you will still be able to reload, try that with HM2 ammo! Perhaps you would like to show us your list of Rifle manufacturers who currently offer NEW HM2 Rifles, the same with ammo manufacturers would be interesting.

 

There is another side to this discussion that you have chosen to completely ignore.

 

If you are happy then fine, if you use your HM2 more than your HMR then fine, that simply means your land/quarry lends itself to it, that is not the case with the majority of the population. FACT.

 

The title of this thread is.....

 

17Mach2 thoughts

 

The OP has my thoughts based on the real situation with HM2. So he can now form his own opinion. If he decides to go down the HM2 he will now go down it with his eyes a little more open, rather than simply your opinion.

 

Have a nice day!

Edited June 8, 2015 by Dekers

[Bewsher500]

what do Edgars import?

I thought Hannams brought in CCI and Hornady

 

 

Hannams currently have several 1000 Hornady 17gr VMax in stock if your interested

[Dekers]

what do Edgars import?

I thought Hannams brought in CCI and Hornady

 

 

Hannams currently have several 1000 Hornady 17gr VMax in stock if your interested

 

Perhaps they do but Edgars certainly used to import Hornady...have they lost that as well?

[tweedledee]

You'll not regret it.mine is a tack driver.22lr long gone.just enjoy it for yourself.let me know what you think.had considered selling mine and buying a barrel for my sako quad. Think its fine the way it is.

[Zetter]

Good news is the local RFD can get hold of the ammo and more importantly is willing to so full steam ahead on this project I think barring variation hiccups.