A Marlin 1894 or a Rossi Puma in .357 Magnum??

[jam1e]

I'm in the market for a .357 Magnum under lever rifle. The purpose of the rifle is, both for "target shooting" and a little vermin control. I may play it same, and go for a new model, unless a decent "honest" rifle comes along. I've started reading up on the various versions in the .357 Magnum, but some advice and/or observations from previous or current owners on the pro's and con's of these rifles, would be appreciated.

I've read that since 2007 Marlin rifles are owned and made by Remington, and that the quality control has "gone down the pan". Is that just hype by purest, or have they really gone down hill? I've been advised that if I go with a Marlin, I should make sure it is stamped "JM".

Just to point out, I'd prefer to have a side ejection, so if I wanted to, I could mount a small scope. I appreciate that won't be to everyone's taste, and spoils the lines of the rifle, but I'd at least like the option.

If I were to go for a used model, what are the signs to look out for, to avoid buying a nail?

Any construction advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

J.

EDIT - Just to add that after a post from Albert 888, I'm also considering A Winchester to, so again, any pro's and con's would be appreciated.

Edited June 6, 2015 by jam1e

[Albert 888]

I too was after a marlin,I wanted the long octagonal barrel one and wanted to fit a scope. But over the past couple of years they have rocketed in price. In the end I bought underdogs old 38Special-357magnum it's a winchester 94 legacy angle eject it came with weaver mounts for a scope. I tried it with a scope but much prefer the open sights,now has a Williams rear peep sight, drop down v notched mid week sight and a finer front blade sight. Mine shoots very well and would recommend an older winchester 94 ae. Shot a normal marlin and didn't really notice much difference, well not enough to warent paying double the price.

[jam1e]

I too was after a marlin,I wanted the long octagonal barrel one and wanted to fit a scope. But over the past couple of years they have rocketed in price. In the end I bought underdogs old 38Special-357magnum it's a winchester 94 legacy angle eject it came with weaver mounts for a scope. I tried it with a scope but much prefer the open sights,now has a Williams rear peep sight, drop down v notched mid week sight and a finer front blade sight. Mine shoots very well and would recommend an older winchester 94 ae. Shot a normal marlin and didn't really notice much difference, well not enough to warent paying double the price.

Thanks Albert, I suppose I hadn't really thought of a Winchester. Mainly as I overheard a conversation at the range, where one person, who was new to the under lever scene, and he was really slating Winchesters build quality, and traded it in within weeks of ownership due to being plagued with cycling issues. In hindsight, it was only one persons view, so maybe he had a rogue gun??

I think I'll probably end up going down the same road as you with open sights, it's more a "Just in case" type of thing. What sort of accuracy do you get out of your Winchester, at 50 and 100 yards, both with open sights, and scoped?

I don't suppose you have a picture of yours you could upload do you?

[Livefast123]

I have a Rossi 92 16" trapper in .44 Mag and it is a cracking bit of kit for the money, was fairly slick out of the box and has only got better with age. Don't worry about the top eject as Rossi make a weaver rail that mounts in place of the rear sight and will allow a scout scope to be mounted.

 

The only thing I will be doing is refinishing the woodwork as Rossi's choice of stain is not really to my liking. I have mine for target shooting and conditioned for Fox and AOLQ on the farm. I have a Skinner peep sight on mine and love it but also have a rail standing by. I think a new one is about £400 and there is a helpful US owners forum called Rossi Riflemen.

 

It seems that the .357 lever guns seem more prone to feeding issues so may as well just get the .44 Loading cost would probably be about the same.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2015 by Livefast123

[Albert 888]

I'm doing 25 yards with it at the moment. I'm getting a 2" group freehand open sights. I only fitted the scope at home then took it off again, I was looking at the halo sights,I then thought why I bought it. I wanted somthing to have fun with that made a big bang and spat brass out everywhere and smoked. After spending countless hours looking through scopes reloading and fine tuning loads for my other rifles. It's a joy to not be as anal about the 357. I will do my best to sort some out, will be Monday or later in the week.

[ZG47]

My understanding is that there may have been some issues resulting from the move and initial worker unfamiliarity but that Marlin rifles are now being made to tighter tolerances than before the Remington purchase. It is also my understanding that Remington has reversed a 1970s' economy move to forged cartridge lifters for the 336 series rifles, going back to machined lifters.

 

Do not forget that the Marlin is an ideal rifle for peep backsights. You can fit a Williams, Lyman, Skinner, etc hunting backsight and with a 3/8" rail you could fit pretty much any low profile target backsight.

 

The Rossi rifles can be a lot of fun and use a very strong action but it is worth having the whole picture and ... do not forget that the Marlin can be easily field stripped for basic maintenance and cleaning from the breech whereas the Rossi is a gunsmith job. Also, the Marlin 1894 was deliberately designed to keep snow, ice, mud, slush, dust and dirt out of the workings when the action is closed.

 

NB The only grizzle I have with the current Marlin range is that they have yet to bring back the Model 7000 self-loader, the Squirrel rifle and its big brother, the Summer Biathlon rifle, which is a great lightweight positional rifle for teenagers and small women (and a useful rabbit rifle for same).

 

Have fun whatever you buy.

Edited June 6, 2015 by ZG47

[jam1e]

I'm doing 25 yards with it at the moment. I'm getting a 2" group freehand open sights. I only fitted the scope at home then took it off again, I was looking at the halo sights,I then thought why I bought it. I wanted somthing to have fun with that made a big bang and spat brass out everywhere and smoked. After spending countless hours looking through scopes reloading and fine tuning loads for my other rifles. It's a joy to not be as anal about the 357. I will do my best to sort some out, will be Monday or later in the week.

You hit the nail on the head there Albert, I got the rifle mainly for open sight target fun, without having to spend lots of time making precision ammo like my other rifles. Looking at most of the under levers, it seems that the basic rear sight is only adjustable for elevation. Is that the case? I'm presuming if it is, that's because the weight of the bullets and the ranges intended mean there will be negligible wind deflection? No problem reference any pictures.

[Livefast123]

For open sight target fun, then you have chosen the right type of gun! Seeing that case going into orbit with smoke trailing, racking the lever and then doing it again. They were built for rapid target acquisition and firing.

 

Generally you adjust the basic sights for windage using a brass drift to physically move the sight.

[jam1e]

I have a Rossi 92 16" trapper in .44 Mag and it is a cracking bit of kit for the money, was fairly slick out of the box and has only got better with age. Don't worry about the top eject as Rossi make a weaver rail that mounts in place of the rear sight and will allow a scout scope to be mounted.

 

The only thing I will be doing is refinishing the woodwork as Rossi's choice of stain is not really to my liking. I have mine for target shooting and conditioned for Fox and AOLQ on the farm. I have a Skinner peep sight on mine and love it but also have a rail standing by. I think a new one is about £400 and there is a helpful US owners forum called Rossi Riflemen.

It seems that the .357 lever guns seem more prone to feeding issues so may as well just get the .44 Loading cost would probably be about the same.

 

Your .44 looks the business! I didn't realise the Rossi's were going for around £400 new! Would you say the quality is as good as the Winchester?

As regards the calibre, I've already got the .357/.38 on my ticket now, and I wanted something light on the recoil front.

I wonder why the .357 has more feed issues than the .44 cal?

As regards the brass drift, I presume the adjustment is made to the front sight?

Edited June 6, 2015 by jam1e

[Albert 888]

It's strange shooting with open sights, I can shoot with the Williams peepsight,mid v sight up and aim with the the fine beaded blade. Also I can remove the aperture from the peepsight and shoot with the mid v sight and the front beaded blade or drop the mid one and just shoot with the front one. The only thing that spoils a good day with a 357 is standing on one or more of your spent brass. Mines currently at the gunsmiths having all 3 sights zeroed correctly and locked in place,so I can take it to 100m.

[Livefast123]

Gone up a bit since i bought mine.........357 £479 or .44 £459 on Guntrader. For my target loads I use 5.1gr of Titegroup under a cast 200gr RNFP, give a lightish recoil but enough to remind you are alive!

 

We have all the leverguns at our club and the metalwork is equal to the Marlins or Winchesters, the woodwork has a bit of a budget stain on it for whatever reason. Owners on the Rossi forum have taken that off and found a lovely piece of wood underneath......or Boyds do a stock for them.

 

I don't know why, i'd like to know but when I was looking people also mentioned that .357 seem to have more feed problems?

 

Mine was bang on but both sights can be drifted.

[Psyxologos]

The new Marlins (2014 and 2015 made) are free of the problems the guns had after Marlin was taken over by Remington. Or so I am led to believe. I am in the market for a .357/.38 special and this is what I found after doing a lot of reading. A new one is about £900 so I think this is where I am going to go. Second had ones (pre Remington) are also coming down in price now. The price was hight because the circa 2007 'Remlins' were ridden with problems, apparently

[Albert 888]

The front and mid sight are of a dovetail fit arrangement windage adustable,on my winchester the mid has slight windage and elevation on the actual sight the the peep sight has elevation and windage. I fit all 3 at the same time,not clever,the mid and front dovetails need a center pop marking to lock them up,i tried shimming them but not much joy. When it's back I will do some photos.

Been toldoff the gunsmith not to use 38sp cases as the carrier could break and I wouldn't be able to get a new one,and to load the 38sp amount of powder and primer in a magnum case I use 158g rnfp cast bullets in both. What do you guys think about that recommendation.

[saddler]

Mate uses the heavier 180gr bullets in his 357 and they cycle like a dream.

My 45 Winchester is fed 255gr Keith bullets...worth checking out the Keith designs in 357 too; though some Marlins don't cycle them too well so they may need seating deeper in the case.

[Underdog]

The dove tails just needed a few taps from a soft mallet and then fit the sights.

The W94 ae are designed around longer rounds than the pistol cases. They do it very well however with the 357 being narrow too an additional small piece is needed for cartridge control from the mag and to facilitate magazine top up.

Magnum cases are best in the Winchester.

 

Be careful mixing lead and jacketed loads. The fouling does not mix and bad accuracy can ensue with either!

 

Many berate the Winchester action being so open. It compounding action to facilitate handling longer brass allows dirt and debris to escape the action.

This so called field stripping ability is a red herring. I have never had a o pull a rifle apart in the field!

[Underdog]

Reversed bullet. Fed just fine from a W94.

Don't pussy foot a levergun action when cycling the action too!

[Underdog]

Eighty yards, moving target in timber. PPU 357m 158grn fmj.

[Underdog]

179 steps. I was stood down by where the rabbits front leg points to. Off hand. I wanted its head but got neck.

 

180grn jacketed, mag brass and H4227.

[Livefast123]

Nice shooting U!

[jam1e]

Thanks for all the replies folks, much appreciated! Lots to take in, and lots to research.....

I feel like a kid in a sweet shop, with a pocket full of cash and obviously a ticket for a .357 Mag. Yet I'm struggling to make my mind up on which make and model to go for now, since my initial post!?? I presume that Rossi are as good as any other make, with regard to functioning properly with light loads and heavy loads? I'm also presuming that as has been stated, with the cheaper alternatives, it's more a case of the woodwork not being as well finished? You'll have to excuse my presumptions, I have absolutely no knowledge of these rifles, and as such could do with some good advice with the pro's and con's from each model. Some of which have obviously already been made.

I do like the stainless steel versions, nice ascetically, but not so good for going covert. Also, are there any issues regarding barrel length? As in, do the longer barrels produce a little more velocity, and better accuracy than the shorter versions?

UD, is the rifle in the pictures, the one you sold to a PW member? And nice shooting by the way! I can't recall the last time I used open sights!

Albert, what do you mean, when you say you have 3 sights?? Also, what do you mean when you say your "gunsmith not to use 38sp cases as the carrier could break" Is that with all makes of rifle?

Got to go for now, the wife's giving me earache to get the bbq going. Women!!

Keep the advice coming folks! I'm keen to know what the most popular midrange rifle is, as this is what I'm most likely to buy. Although I do like the Rossi.....

[Albert 888]

Underdog I wanted the flip sight and the front beaded to be set centrally so I only have to bother about was the rear one,it's still shooting great thanks. I'm good with a hammer expecially my 7 lb one i have had for around 15 years. The gunsmith is sort of an enthusiast when it comes to cowboy type things and is very knowledgeable.

Jamie I have a front blade with a fine bead,a mid barrel sight that flips up and down that has a v in it and ontop of the Acton I have an adjustable peepsight so 3 sights in my book.

The gunsmith said I'm better using magnum cases only as using the shorter 38sp cases causes extra stress on the flappy thing that moves brass from the magtube to the chamber, and they are difficult to get hold of.

My winchester 94ae legacy is underdogs old one, thats in very good condition and silky smooth with a very nice trigger.

[Livefast123]

I think the issue of .38 special cases is that they are shorter which leads to feed problems and stress on the mechanism, you can also get a carbon ring in the chamber from firing too many .38's. There are loads of light .357 rounds so no real reason to use the .38's. The difference between a 16 and 20 incher won't be worth worrying about but i prefer the shorter barrel when packing it in my saddle partner.

 

As previously said the metal work is lovely on the Rossi with a deep finish, the action is smooth and i have had no issues with target or dirty harry .44 rounds. The standard sights are buckhorn but you can get a scope rail or a miriad of different sighting options. The wood finish from standard is average but have a look at Rossi Riflemen to see what is lurking underneath.

 

I feel the Rossi is good value for a new gun and the 16" is damn sexy ☺ sorry had to let it out!

 

Disclaimer - Livefast accepts no responsibility for being biased.......

Edited June 7, 2015 by Livefast123

[Livefast123]

Nice, light target load for a .357 Mag would be 4.5 grains of Hodgdons Titegroup over a 158gr lead boolit..........from Lee Modern Reloading.

 

I would try Shellhouse Bullet Company for your cast stuff unless you make your own.

[Underdog]

As I said mate the Winchester 94 was built around longer brass like 30/30, 38/55, 219zipper and even 444Marlin to name a few. So it is not at its best with short brass, sounds negative but actually the Winchester engineers have done a very good job of it!

 

The Rossi is a Winchester 92 clone, an action designed around pistol cartridges and very strong too.

 

Don't dismiss a 73 clone too!

 

We are all brought up on scopes and we are all use to dissecting a target easily with a magnified image. I find opens easy to use, you aim at the blob, not a a part of the blob! You don't see all that shake. If hunting small game and you cant see the target too well you just go of what you can see for reference and send one.

 

Although expensive a tang sight is the best. Closer to the eye everything gets sharpened up and the extra sighting radius is always good.

 

U.

[jam1e]

I've found a new Rossi Puma in .357 Mag, in stainless, and a 16" barrel for £500.

Sounds just the job, but I'd like to do a little more research first.

I'll still need to sort some dies. I'll be getting a Lee set. Am I right in thinking, the powder through die, is also the neck expanding die? Also, do you people weigh each powder load on the scales, (like I do in my other rifles) or do you set you powder hopper to the required load and drop the load straight into the case?

Thanks.

Edited June 7, 2015 by jam1e