Fac air or 17hmr/22lr

[peek-at]

If this this your first FAC application you want to apply now for everything that you might want at some point in the future....that way you dont pay for future variations.

You can apply for a caliber, but dont have to go out and buy one immediately. (dont forget to apply for your moderators for each caliber on your form)

 

I have FAC air, 22LR & ,17 HMR as I have permissions with differing requirements. It sounds to me that a .17HMR woud be a good starter for you on grouse moor if you are shooting up to 130yds as you will find it is point and shoot at that range. If you later aquire other permissions which are unsuitable for HMR and you have vacant 'slots' for air/.22LR/WMR/moderators, you can just go ahead and get them. I would check if your FEO is happy with HMR for fox as opinions differ area to area. (its just a phone call) He may be happy or may advise on their preferred caliber for fox.

 

Many (including me) will recommend CZ to you. Good quality/cheap rifles and very popular. Trigger kits are cheap and will improve an unmodified rifle but if you buy second hand you will probably find its already been done for you.

Edited December 17, 2015 by peek-at

[Hendrix's rifle]

Thanks a lot, I have filled out the forms, just 1 more permission to go to, I've put down 17hmr, 22 and 223. That should be me, I'd like to get stalking deer in a few years but need experience doing so and will do dsc1 before it goes any further. Is there any other caliber that may be required? Not for the deer of course but for general vermin, i appreciate all the help so far!!

Edited December 17, 2015 by Hendrix's rifle

[Hendrix's rifle]

And yes it's a first time application

[Salop Matt]

I would say let someone with CF take care of the fox`s and go FAC AIR.

My .22 30ftlb Huntsman has put my .17HMR and .22lr out of buisiness, the FAC Air is just so versitile.

16gn JSB zeroed at 40 yards and drop wise is two mildots at 73yards on 10x mag, Yesterday I was smashing a 15mm spinner serval times on the trott at 73 yards and thats pellets straight from the tin and boy was it spinning the target, loads of energy.

 

ATB

 

Matt

[Dekers]

Of those you mention, if the land is suitable then a HMR.

 

It has issues of noise and ammo, it will also be the most expensive ammo, but FAC Air tends to be quite expensive upfront, and as a one gun solution simply isn't.

 

As already mentioned if you can manage it then a .22lr and a HMR.

 

As also mentioned, the WMR, an excellent calibre, but I've never really seen it as a squirrel or rabbit calibre, although many do.

 

I have them all, FAC air, .22lr, HMR and WMR, they all get an outing but the FAC air probably least.

 

ATB!

 

PS don't forget the Sound Moderators!

[Harry136]

If your going for deer later, I'd go for a .308, it will take down any deer species in this country with a little more reach and you may want to go hog hunting at some point, with these, bigger is better! Also if in the future you decide to do some FT or TR you have a gun ready and waiting. So realistically, The ideal set up for you would be:

.177 FAC Air

.22 LR/ WMR

.223

.308

Edited December 17, 2015 by Harry136

[Dekers]

If your going for deer later, I'd go for a .308, it will take down any deer species in this country with a little more reach and you may want to go hog hunting at some point, with these, bigger is better! Also if in the future you decide to do some FT or TR you have a gun ready and waiting. So realistically, The ideal set up for you would be:

.177 FAC Air

.22 LR/ WMR

.223

.308

 

 

Am I missing something, where did Deer and Boar come from, and our nice FEO are extremely unlikely to grant you a calibre to shoot something you have no requirement for now, but might want to get involved with in a few years!

 

Edit

And my personal opinion is forget any thought of .177 FAC, if you have a requirement for FAC Air as a general Pest Control tool, then .22 is the only calibre to consider!

Edited December 17, 2015 by Dekers

[Harry136]

The OP said he may want to get into Deer shooting in the future.

[Dekers]

The OP said he may want to get into Deer shooting in the future.

 

 

Fair comment, I missed the later post, I was looking at the OP, just the same he did say..... I'd like to get stalking deer in a few years but need experience doing so and will do dsc1 before it goes any further!

 

So my comment............. and our nice FEO are extremely unlikely to grant you a calibre to shoot something you have no requirement for now, but might want to get involved with in a few years! still stands!

[Salop Matt]

Of those you mention, if the land is suitable then a HMR.

 

It has issues of noise and ammo, it will also be the most expensive ammo, but FAC Air tends to be quite expensive upfront, and as a one gun solution simply isn't.

 

As already mentioned if you can manage it then a .22lr and a HMR.

 

As also mentioned, the WMR, an excellent calibre, but I've never really seen it as a squirrel or rabbit calibre, although many do.

 

I have them all, FAC air, .22lr, HMR and WMR, they all get an outing but the FAC air probably least.

 

ATB!

 

PS don't forget the Sound Moderators!

 

Hi Deckers,

 

Surely it depends on the area he is in for licensing as some wont allow/condition HMR or 22lr for fox. Plus CF is so much more suitable for fox.

Then with squirrels they will have to be on the ground for a rimfire (CB shorts/longs and caps just rarely work with any propper accuarcay) Rabbits, yes the HMR is a bit noisey alothough yes is a fantastic bunny gun but still is plauged by ammo issues.

The FAC Air can be bought second hand well within the budget and is far safer to shoot skywards for squirrels and avian pest/quarry. My FAC Air allows me to to head shoot with confidence to 80yards, Heart and lung I havent tried but I suspect 100yards (circa 12/13ftlb @100 yards) if you do your bit. Now anyone should be able to get within 80 yards of quarry and I bet 50-80 yards is about the most common range for rabbits and squirrels.

 

If fox really is a must then why not look at a different calibre all together and go 22Hornet which is barely noiser than a HMR and can be loaded for a very simlar money to HMR, Head shot bunnys will still be sellable and squirrels wont matter, but the Hornet will be better in the wind and better on the fox also allowing longer range corvids when on the deck. The reloading here would also be a good entry point for if he wanted to go for bigger CF calibres for his deer shooting.

 

An "air rilfe" would also like open more permitions up to him, I have found some land owners dont like "bullet guns" in there terms and my "air rifle" has got me a foot in the door thats opend up lots of oppertunitys.

 

I know your not the worlds biggest FAC Air fan but I would love to see use your FAC Air a bit more for say 6months and then reflect back on the topic then. Once your in practise with the rifle am sure it and you will both impress yourself at its abilitys.

 

ATB

 

Matt

[Bewsher500]

If this this your first FAC application you want to apply now for everything that you might want at some point in the future....that way you dont pay for future variations.

You can apply for a caliber, but dont have to go out and buy one immediately. (dont forget to apply for your moderators for each caliber on your form)

 

 

 

 

I agree with parts of that

First time applicants will have a harder time justifying so many rifles especially if there is any overlap

You will want to have all your justification in place and every angle covered

 

A new guy with a couple of bits of land has enough to justify 4 rifles to cover 2 maybe 3 quarry? I would start asking a lot more questions if I was the FEO

If its a cost thing do as the man says and apply for moderators for everything and buy one that fits all

 

I run one mod on six calibres and have another that covers three larger calibres, no need for any more

 

you can 1-4-1 a mod authority for a rifle at no cost - ALWAYS ASK FOR A MODERATOR slot whether you need one or not ,

 

IMO a .22lr is the bare minimum for quiet stealthy rabbit and vermin - noise and quarry are you reasons

HMR/WMR (you only need one of them, they are very similar) is a personal choice and a very good fox tool....but be aware some forces may interpret the HO guidance and restrict it to ground game and NOT fox due to this being your first application and the apparent lack of experience - range and quarry are your reasons

 

if you are serious about the fox and have any concerns about that part above being taken literally by your police authority (a bit of digging and find out what others have been granted and a quiet word with the FEO BEFORE you apply would be sensible) then go for a .17 or .22 CF

.17/.22 hornet negates the need for the magnum rimfire and covers fox with authority...17s are not my personal cup of tea I prefer 22cf

.222/.223 does this and takes care of small deer

- extended range - humane killing of large quarry are your reasons

 

my .222's are quieter than the HMR/WMR

 

sounds like deer would be a nice to have - get that sorted with a 141 mod for rifle swap when you have some experience and have maybe been out and used an estate rifle on a couple of bought days

 

whatever you ask for add a letter of justification to your application

may sure you are clear about your reasons including trajectory, bullet choice, terminal effects, topography of the ground you will be shooting, detail your knowledge of use of backstops, shooting angles (stick or prone) and concerns about having injured foxes running around when you justify the larger calibre/cartridge(s)

 

you can never OVER JUSTIFY....only leave them wanting to ask questions because you were light on detail.

 

IMO once they start asking more questions you have already delayed or damaged the application.

Make the FEO's job easy and he will sign the form and send it upstairs

 

(FWIW I have around 18 components on my FAC from .17m2 and .17HMR through to 300 WIn Mag, 6 rimfires, several centrefires of the same calibre and a humane dispatch pistol. I have never had anything restricted or rejected. Seen a lot who have though)

Edited December 17, 2015 by Bewsher500

[Dekers]

 

Hi Deckers,

 

Surely it depends on the area he is in for licensing as some wont allow/condition HMR or 22lr for fox. Plus CF is so much more suitable for fox.

Then with squirrels they will have to be on the ground for a rimfire (CB shorts/longs and caps just rarely work with any propper accuarcay) Rabbits, yes the HMR is a bit noisey alothough yes is a fantastic bunny gun but still is plauged by ammo issues.

The FAC Air can be bought second hand well within the budget and is far safer to shoot skywards for squirrels and avian pest/quarry. My FAC Air allows me to to head shoot with confidence to 80yards, Heart and lung I havent tried but I suspect 100yards (circa 12/13ftlb @100 yards) if you do your bit. Now anyone should be able to get within 80 yards of quarry and I bet 50-80 yards is about the most common range for rabbits and squirrels.

 

If fox really is a must then why not look at a different calibre all together and go 22Hornet which is barely noiser than a HMR and can be loaded for a very simlar money to HMR, Head shot bunnys will still be sellable and squirrels wont matter, but the Hornet will be better in the wind and better on the fox also allowing longer range corvids when on the deck. The reloading here would also be a good entry point for if he wanted to go for bigger CF calibres for his deer shooting.

 

An "air rilfe" would also like open more permitions up to him, I have found some land owners dont like "bullet guns" in there terms and my "air rifle" has got me a foot in the door thats opend up lots of oppertunitys.

 

I know your not the worlds biggest FAC Air fan but I would love to see use your FAC Air a bit more for say 6months and then reflect back on the topic then. Once your in practise with the rifle am sure it and you will both impress yourself at its abilitys.

 

ATB

 

Matt

 

 

I was simply commenting on his OP, and of those calibres mentioned the HMR is the most appropriate in my opinion, and perfectly capable of very accurate instant stop shots on fox out to a little over 100 yards in the right hands. A Centrefire is not a better choice all the time, it may well be at times, but rimfires are very capable on fox in the right hands at the right distances, a fact the Home Office have eventually agreed with. Centrefires on squirrel and rabbit are not normally peoples first choice. As regards any region not granting the likes of HMR/WMR or even .22lr for fox then the OP/Anyone may want to ask them why as the Home Office consider them acceptable. If the condition ALQ (or AOLQ) is on the FAC then they accept all species anyway.

 

Loads of squirrels are taken on the ground so rimfire should be fine, and in principle a 12ft lb air should be fine for them on the whole in trees, no real need for FAC air for most, loads of people very successfully deal with them with 12ft lb!.

 

I'm not sure what makes you think I'm no fan of FAC air, I simply select the most appropriate gun for any given job, sometimes, but not often that is FAC air, but that's why I have one.

 

As it happens this was a serious and important job for squirrels in a Council owned park, and in this particular case my FAC Falcon WAS the tool of choice for a number of reasons, primarily distances/urgency/time available/labour/council expectations/exclusion zones/public perception/etc.. It worked quite well, I seem to recall I took out just over 170 in 4.5 days, around 92-93 in the pic.

 

Everyones land, experience, ability, quarry, Police Region, etc., is different, but these are my views!

 

ATB!

Edited December 17, 2015 by Dekers