islandgun Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Would it be wrong to swap Federal PB cases and Fed 209a primers for Cheddite cases and cx2000 primers ? its for a 2-7/8 10g lead load of 35g cheers IG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 cheers U I'm taking it as read NO it wouldn't be wrong to swap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I would swap them. No doubt others will warn of impending doom 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I would swap them. No doubt others will warn of impending Boom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I would swap them. No doubt others will warn of impending Boom Have I got to make another video cookie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Have I got to make another video cookie? Another , where is the last one ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 The last video involved toilet paper and underdog. Hey the guy can do whatever he wants, you can do whatever you want, but.... 10gauge has lower sammi specs at 11k psi and cip have 1050bar rating. And you are advising on replacing 50% of the components when you don't even know what rating the shells or gun is at. How can you justify that? I can guess too. But without more solid info, its just a guess UD. You can make any videos you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 thanks cookoff13 great advice as usual, the reason i ask is that federal cases seem to be un-available in the uk in a 10g, federal cases appear to be straight walled as are cheddite, generally C&G in their recipes state that straight walled must be used but never state which make (it seems not to matter ! ) It would be very useful if someone would clarify this, as we are able to source cheddite cases easily but not Feds or other American brands although most recipes using American powders use American cases, also as an aside why must they sell cheddite cases primed which cost a fortune to send (TNT e.g) when un-primed they could be sent by post ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Well the 209a fed is hot. The difference with hulls is the basewad too. Fiocchi did 10mm, then 8mm. The cheddite hulls are low basewad, even lower! so large volume hulls. I can't really say what is equivalent to a fed hull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 So clay and game are wrong too hey cookie. Chedite cases are larger volume you say. That itself will lower pressure somewhat. The larger the bore the lower the pressure, so when you say "only" you sound as though there must be a safety reason for such a low working pressure! Not the case my friend, that rating easily gets the job done and nothing will fail. In fact the larger the bore and slower powders I would prefer a hotter primer than a colder one. Boy I would hate to be an expert, they make everything enjoyable a royal pain in the Harris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 The drive to comment to the original question was born from being in a similar situation in the nineties. I could get American powders and data but not American cases listed in the data and not always American primers. My first Lee load all machine & data only made destiction betwixt compression formed cases a PT type and sure enough I had no issues swapping cases and only dropped the charge for compression formed cases. The only time I had issues was from not using a magnum primers and Alliant unique (called Hercules unique back then). I never had issues from hot primers, only cooler ones! I have never blown a gun up or damaged one. Guessing is many things to many men. My guessing involves cross referencing and making an informed guess. For me it does not mean blind folding myself prior to reloading! Op, please yourself. U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 So clay and game are wrong too hey cookie. ? Chedite cases are larger volume you say. That itself will lower pressure somewhat. that has the potential to lower pressures, but relying on that gues for "quality / right" information? The larger the bore the lower the pressure, so when you say "only" ? you sound as though there must be a safety reason for such a low working pressure! Not the case my friend, that rating easily gets the job done and nothing will fail. this depends on what spec the ammunition is to be loaded to. ammunition needs to be safe for the firearm in question. In fact the larger the bore and slower powders I would prefer a hotter primer than a colder one. i`d be more inclined to use the primer that the recipe states. Boy I would hate to be an expert, they make everything enjoyable a royal pain in the Harris! i`m no expert, i`m just a guy with some common sense who cant agree with the justification of changing multiple components, when there is very little information. (that info being.. 2,7/8 lead 35g) The drive to comment to the original question was born from being in a similar situation in the nineties. I could get American powders and data but not American cases listed in the data and not always American primers. My first Lee load all machine & data only made destiction betwixt compression formed cases a PT type and sure enough I had no issues swapping cases and only dropped the charge for compression formed cases. The only time I had issues was from not using a magnum primers and Alliant unique (called Hercules unique back then). I never had issues from hot primers, only cooler ones! I have never blown a gun up or damaged one. neither have i. Guessing is many things to many men. My guessing involves cross referencing and making an informed guess. For me it does not mean blind folding myself prior to reloading! Op, please yourself. U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Thanks U and cookie (it seems no one else has an opinion ) I will load some and try it, its a light load, roll crimped there is also one recipe using cci 209 primers which I have, (the loads are for an old light single 10g) I also found it interesting that the first 4 loads listed in the BPI mighty ten manual, used exactly the same components (including propellant weight) except for different powders, so 30gn of herco produces 7050 psi and 30gn of unique produces 7070 psi of course federal cases My question was to seek other more knowledgable opinions than mine so thanks for that, it seems there is a bit of confusion out there and the manuals and load data caters for the products the suppliers have and that we need a bit more cross referencing and alternative findings made available, (if they exist) cheers IG pain in the harris Edited January 22, 2016 by islandgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatsanmad Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I have not long started loading only in the last 4-5 months. And this is just me but i dont read to much into hulls. As for primers and again this is just me but before knocking a large batch up i look at some data and do some working out and right out diffrent powder wieghts so i will load 4-5 with the stated powder charge then take a grain off and do another 4-6 and keep doing that. Then i go out and pattern them. A big thing is the cartridge will fail before the gun will i also exam the hulls after fireing. And so far i have used a fed 209a cci209 cx2000 and my gun is in onr piece and im still here. What i got told is the hotter the primer take a grain or two off the milder the primer add a grain. As i said this is only me and im not going to say you should do what im doing or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB1954 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 The drive to comment to the original question was born from being in a similar situation in the nineties. I could get American powders and data but not American cases listed in the data and not always American primers. My first Lee load all machine & data only made destiction betwixt compression formed cases a PT type and sure enough I had no issues swapping cases and only dropped the charge for compression formed cases. The only time I had issues was from not using a magnum primers and Alliant unique (called Hercules unique back then). I never had issues from hot primers, only cooler ones! I have never blown a gun up or damaged one. Guessing is many things to many men. My guessing involves cross referencing and making an informed guess. For me it does not mean blind folding myself prior to reloading! Op, please yourself. U I agree with Underdog. From what you say I assume the original Federal PB case data gave a pressure of about 7100psi/1230fps, I'm guessing you are using an American powder/wad and you have looked at other American manufactured cases with similar shot loads and do they give low'ish pressures as well with same powder/wad??? Do you have a Federal PB and Cheddite case to cut open to compare?? Just looking at my data I think the Federal PB has quite a thick base wad maybe 10-12mm against the Cheddite 5.5mm. The Remington case with a plastic base wad looks closer in volume to the Cheddite? Not sure of the material in the Federal base wad, could be compressed paper. Do you have data for a Remington case? Just my thoughts to try and help you decide. At the end of the day you are responsible for you own safety. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 the federal case 10ga has the largest capacity of all the 10 ga hulls to my knowledge. However as stated being a cut down load of lead this might be different due to base wad height. Ched is plastic basewad and lower capacity. Fed is paper basewad..... Fed 209a is a hot primer generally giving a better ignition ( burn)on heavy powder recipes and a few fps extra utilising steel, but with more pressure. Ched cx2000 are a stable mid performance primer. Both cases are pt cases. I would never sub the ched primer for the federal primer, but would and do use both hulls for the same load due to availability without issue. You must decide on your data though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hi Mab1954 I dont have federal or cheddites in 10g to cut down I have rems which i use in my sxs 10, (Alliant recipes), the single 10 wont push out the rems (resizing issue) although its happy with the two winchesters I have Ive been loading the remingtons for a while starting at 46g lead although i dont know what colour the base is ( eg see RSI manual "steel" asking for yellow or black ?) I cant find data for such light loads other than BPI, i wanted to see other peoples opinions before i sent off for more components, Hi widgeon man thanks very much, Your opinion that Federal cases could be replaced by Cheddite cases is very welcome (of course down to the individuals discretion). Perhaps due to a lower basewad the cheddite case might be more suitable for light loads, I will try the cheddite cases and the cci primers given that I can source the powder, does anyone know where I can get ................... cheers IG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Cci primers are a different primer pocket size apparently so I don't know how suitable as never used?? They normally use in Rio hulls etc..... Ched hulls use cx2000's or 50's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Cci primers are a different primer pocket size apparently so I don't know how suitable as never used?? They normally use in Rio hulls etc..... Ched hulls use cx2000's or 50's good point, thanks, will see if compatable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Slack primers can be assisted with some clear nail varnish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatFreddysCat Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 C+G do a primer performance test sheet No.1008. In an identical 12g load with the only difference being the primer. The FED209A gave a 5.5m/s increase in velocity at 20m over the CX2000 and a pressure increase of 17.5 BAR. So the FED is very slightly hotter but the difference is negligible and variation between individual loads will give bigger pressure and velocity differences than that. UD. The only time I had a problem was when I ran out of CX2000 primers and used a colder CX50 instead. Had several misfires with Alliant A381. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 C+G do a primer performance test sheet No.1008. In an identical 12g load with the only difference being the primer. The FED209A gave a 5.5m/s increase in velocity at 20m over the CX2000 and a pressure increase of 17.5 BAR. So the FED is very slightly hotter but the difference is negligible and variation between individual loads will give bigger pressure and velocity differences than that. UD. The only time I had a problem was when I ran out of CX2000 primers and used a colder CX50 instead. Had several misfires with Alliant A381. There you go.Many think strong primers will result in dangerous pressure. They ensure good ignition and prevent a cavition issue from a semi kind of flame out and reignition. Shot shells with nitro powders have when compared to rifle amuntion needed strong priming relatively. Despite the heavy payload the space is huge instantly increasing volume and causing an issue for the flame front. Hence strong primers for the size of the charge compared to a rifle. Remember the resistance of a bullet being swaged by the bore within little movement causes much resistance and thus helps the flame front to proceed through the powder. A shot shell on the other hand has little resistance and a wide swept volume too before the shot connects with the barrel, and then it is a fluid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Well some excellent answers from all, thanks very much. I will be loading some light 10g loads using Cheddite cases and primers in place of Federal Cheers IG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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