wymberley Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 (edited) Im just the same, But you are right The KPY figures could have been adjusted or trimed to fit some how i dont know, I have some print outs run direct from KPY and some off the nett, but none done by me on KPY. Whats this sierra thing you are talking about exactly please im all ears. Can you get to it online for free? I would Appreciate this, it good to know. It's not free, but one of those sneaky ones where you need the CD installed to run it. Fortunately, some jobs have the right perks. https://www.sierrabullets.com/products/infinity-software/ Edited August 11, 2016 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 "but at 60 which is realistic range for the average albert and his son to reliably kill Geese" Tony have you had too much beer in that tent?! Average and reliably?! 🙈🙉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 "but at 60 which is realistic range for the average albert and his son to reliably kill Geese" Tony have you had too much beer in that tent?! Average and reliably?! Oh dear i do seen to have ruffled your feathers dont i , whats wrong are you feeling rather unloved old chap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 A 10lb bag of Hw13 costs approx £200 including shipping. I make that approx £44 a kilo. I must admit i've bought a kilo of powershot this season, £59!, just to try a couple of loads, i wanted to buy some hw13 but i wanted 10lb of two shot sizes and couldn't justify the cost at the moment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Not really Tony..... But perhaps someone reading comments you make on a open forum and your ranges will think they can duplicate or are normal. I don't think so and witness people 'having a go' on marsh.Having spent a good deal of time teaching shooting very few people consistently shoot clays on a high tower( av 40 yds) and having shot 80 yard clays off a tower myself off a ball trap and having shot for my country I know what it requires...it's far harder than 40.... And I miss.And at a true 60 yards it requires a lot from the gun, ammo and a well practiced shooter to be consistent.... Never mind being stuck in mud, laying, sitting, squatting and birds quartering on a wind off the sea. See my point?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Not really Tony..... But perhaps someone reading comments you make on a open forum and your ranges will think they can duplicate or are normal. I don't think so and witness people 'having a go' on marsh.Having spent a good deal of time teaching shooting very few people consistently shoot clays on a high tower( av 40 yds) and having shot 80 yard clays off a tower myself off a ball trap and having shot for my country I know what it requires...it's far harder than 40.... And I miss.And at a true 60 yards it requires a lot from the gun, ammo and a well practiced shooter to be consistent.... Never mind being stuck in mud, laying, sitting, squatting and birds quartering on a wind off the sea. See my point?? Can't criticise anyone for having an interest in what a shotgun is or is not ultimately capable, but these are good points. The American Bureau of Sport Fisheries and whatnot got hold of a couple of thousand plus mallard and set them off on a well defined flight path. They then set up a 12 bore fully choked with 1& 1/4 oz of No 3s and 5s (English) lead loads which was set up and fired by automatic electrical means (how they did this or achieved the flight path, I haven't a clue) to ensure that each bird was truly centered in the pattern at various ranges. To keep this as brief as possible, we'll ignore the 3s as the 5s performed better. The first analysis was to find the numbers killed instantly. All was well out to 30 yards (95%) but then it all went pear shaped. At 55 yards it was down to 24% so they changed the ground rules to what was deemed birds bought to bag which equated to a broken wing and dead within 5 minutes, This improved things to a little over 50%. This would seem to resemble Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey's opinion that following a survey on his part a first class marksman under all conditions of game shooting will bag 45%. However, it's good to know that the situation has now improved and that we're currently capable of consistently killing pigeon at 55 yards with 1 oz of 7&1/2 lead shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) "but at 60 which is realistic range for the average albert and his son to reliably kill Geese if they and thair gun and load are capable" Well as this light hearted coment is clearly the piece of text you are so upset about WM, let me amend it for you. 60 yards is a distance judging acctual distance comes with experience. Many claimed 60 yard shots are way closer . A 60 yard goose is up there. . Edited August 12, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Tony, you do seem to contradict yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) Tony, you do seem to contradict yourself. If you show me where exactly it would help me clear up your confusion. Edited August 12, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I'm not confused. One minute you are talking about 90 yard patterns, then you are saying that 60 yards is "up there". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I'm not confused. One minute you are talking about 90 yard patterns, then you are saying that 60 yards is "up there". Only talk long range patterns to show POTENTIAL CAPABILITY not advocating they have any PRACTICAL use or not in the field By and large in tens HW 13 or TSS are not needed to get the job done humane, Mentioning HWs performance at extended ranges was included to Show its Potential not advocate its adoption or use at such ranges. I know my capability you know yours I know what the capability of the loads i use are too, i take from that performance as much as i am capable of, anything left is in reserve. To shoot at anything beyond your own or your equiptments capability is inhumane, you owe it to your chosen quarry to ensure you at all times do your very best to ensure a clean dispatch. Venture outside any of these factors and it stops being sport and turns into cruel. If said this before to you, if you think im wrong doing my very best to not only have the best or know what the best is doing downrange to add confidence which i feel contributes to enhanced performance in the field, then i am truly sorry, it is not my aim to offend you misslead you or anyone in any way. But i wont change what i do for you or anybody, its as i said to you before its what i do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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